Apologetics class.

[Silvertusk]

Hi Guys.

I think God has been leading me to set up a apologetics home group class for my church. According to my Minister this seems to be an answer to pray as she is finding that some people are not getting enough from the Alpha course. This is encouraging to me - and now has also given me a sense of urgency to get it running. However I need some advice for some resources for hoe groups. So far I am thinking of starting with Lee Strobel and his DVD and participants guide course - with Case for Christ, Case for Creator, Case for Faith series. Then maybe move onto William Lane Craig - "On Guard" and "Reasonable Faith.".

Do any of you know an really good resources that you might have used that are ideal for a small home group in looking at the evidence? Ideally I will like to write a course myself - but due to the feeling that I need to start this group soon - I might need some resources to start it going?

Any ideas - help would be much appreciated.

God Bless

Silvertusk.

[Canuckster1127]

Well, of course, the standard for many years in this area has been C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity. There's no shortage of study guides and materials. Mere Christianity started as radio broadcasrts during WWII so there may be some recording out there too. Francis Schaeffere's How Shall We Then Live, videos are another gold standard in this area, if they aren't already somewhat dated.

[jlay]

I really enjoy Frank Turek.

http://www.crossexamined.org/

[happycynic]

As an atheist it's probably not my place to say, but might want to bring in an atheist perspective in on it too. If there's any non-theist groups in your area, invite them to have a debate with your class at some point. Maybe even invite them to join a class at some point, and in exchange bring your class to one of their meetings. Preaching to the choir can be good and all, but for apologetics the target audience isn't the believers, it's the non-believers. It'll do the class some good to understand how the other side of the fence thinks, if they're serious about talking with us. Plus, you can't know if your apologetics are any good until you try them out against people who are actually arguing against them wholeheartedly.

And hey, if you're right, there's nothing to worry about, is there?

[jlay]

Turek has plenty of videos of him debating Atheists.

And hey, if you're right, there's nothing to worry about, is there?

One thing I've learned is it is alot easier to tie knots than to untie them. I would never recommend a debate with an atheist as part of 'learning' apologetics. Watching a debate? Well that may be different. But it depends on the topic. I've seen some debates where I learned a lot. Some where I learned nothing.
As far as understanding the atheist perspective. Well, that is not one thing. Not all atheists are like you.

[happycynic]

As far as understanding the atheist perspective. Well, that is not one thing. Not all atheists are like you.

Good point. That's actually one of the things we always stress ourselves, that we're not a unified group. Should have remembered that when I made my suggestion.

As for debates where I've learned a lot or learned nothing, I find that the televised debates I've participated in have been largely unenlightening, but the forum-based ones (like on this site) that I've been in have been quite enlightening. Maybe you could assign them "homework" where they go through the discussions on this forum or others, and critique both sides?

And i'm kinda curious: why would debating atheists be a bad idea for learning apologetics? I learned what I know about the subject by debating theists.

[Canuckster1127]

And i'm kinda curious: why would debati ... ologetics?

It's not necessarily a bad thing. However, as a board we're not designed to be a debate site. If you check our Board Purpose and Discussion Guidelines hopefully that will make things more clear. If not, pm me and I'll help you understand better.

[happycynic]

looks like your URL isn't working... but yeah, I'll take a look @ the board purpose and discussion guidelines. If I'm going counter-purpose to the forums by starting up debates, I shall politely remove myself

[Canuckster1127]

I'm not trying to scare you off. You're welcome even as a non-believer. We're not a debate board is what I'm attempting to say. We're happy to discuss issues. We don't exist however as a forum for non-Christians to come on to proselytize. We exist for Christians to interact and also for those who are not believers who want to discuss things with a view to being willing to re-examine things as appropriate. If you can work within those perameters you're welcome. I'm just trying to be upfront early on so there's no misunderstanding. We have and had have several long-term posters on the board who are not Christians and who have walked that fine line, so please don't read any veiled threats there.

[happycynic]

Sounds like we're good then I guess the only thing you could really disqualify me on is that I'm not seriously considering becoming christian. If I'm proven wrong I'll have no choice but to start believing accordingly, but realistically I don't expect anything so definitive to come out of these discussions. Individual arguments, on the other hand (like the energetic discussion about the problem of evil going on in "everything is god's fault"), are very open to revision in light of new apologetics angles. I'll try to stick to topics like this one where my religious views have little relevance, or ones like "everything is god's fault" where someone asked what the big deal was about an argument from my part of the field. I should be able to avoid bringing my views where they're unwelcome if I do that

[DannyM]

As an atheist it's probably not my place to say, but might want to bring in an atheist perspective in on it too. If there's any non-theist groups in your area, invite them to have a debate with your class at some point. Maybe even invite them to join a class at some point, and in exchange bring your class to one of their meetings. Preaching to the choir can be good and all, but for apologetics the target audience isn't the believers, it's the non-believers. It'll do the class some good to understand how the other side of the fence thinks, if they're serious about talking with us. Plus, you can't know if your apologetics are any good until you try them out against people who are actually arguing against them wholeheartedly.

And hey, if you're right, there's nothing to worry about, is there?

Why would the Christian wish to waste his precious fellowship time debating that which he already knows to be an irrational worldview with an irrational atheist? My goodness you think you're important, don't you? Don't you get it? You've simply rendered yourself unimportant in this world. Move on. Go get an outdoor hobby or something.

[DannyM]

Silvertusk,

Great topic! This is something I've been thinking about for some time. Time permitting I want to get at this one with you. Alpha needs a revamp, in my opinion. And you're on the right track.

[smiley]

Why would the Christian wish to waste his precious fellowship time debating that which he already knows to be an irrational worldview with an irrational atheist?

What's the use of studying apologetics if you don't expose yourself to the opposition's arguments? You end up doing nothing but indoctrinating your students.

[DannyM]

Why would the Christian wish to waste his precious fellowship time debating that which he already knows to be an irrational worldview with an irrational atheist?

What's the use of studying apologetics if you don't expose yourself to the opposition's arguments? You end up doing nothing but indoctrinating your students.

What are you on about? Did you actually read my post?

[Gman]

Why would the Christian wish to waste his precious fellowship time debating that which he already knows to be an irrational worldview with an irrational atheist?

What's the use of studying apologetics if you don't expose yourself to the opposition's arguments? You end up doing nothing but indoctrinating your students.

I do all the time.. That is why I believe in creationism. Reading the opposition's arguments only makes me stronger...