Evidence for God from Science

I just thought about this question. If the flood was truly global as some creationists suggest, and the tops of the highest mountains were covered, including Mt. Everest, then how did those on the ark breathe? If Mt. Everest is 29,000 feet above sea level, and water seeks its own level, then the ark must have been floating over 29,000 feet above sea level. How did Noah, his family, and all the animals breathe with the low oxygen levels at that height? Just a thought for the YECs to ponder. I'm sure it's been discussed before, but it's new to me.

I guess they would answer that Everest was the result of flood geology, and that it did not exist before/during the flood.

August wrote:I guess they would answer that Everest was the result of flood geology, and that it did not exist before/during the flood.

Is that what most YECs believe? I'm going to do some research on that.

RickD wrote:

August wrote:I guess they would answer that Everest was the result of flood geology, and that it did not exist before/during the flood.

Is that what most YECs believe? I'm going to do some research on that.

Yup, looks like according to YEC theory, Mt. Everest was formed during or after the "global" flood. Any fossils on the mountain also happened as a result of the flood. I guess YEC has a simple explanation for what I thought was a tough question.

Well, if you're going to suspend any type of time measuring device as all the ones in use refute, your theory, then there's really not much stopping you when there's you allow no basis or methodology to stand in your way.

Canuckster1127 wrote:Well, if you're going to suspend any type of time measuring device as all the ones in use refute, your theory, then there's really not much stopping you when there's you allow no basis or methodology to stand in your way.

Huh? I'm not following you. Please rephrase for us simple-minded folk.

Yup, a simple solution. I just wonder why some ANE writings that predate the flood speak of mountains that were in existence prior to the flood, and retained at least the same name afterward, like the Mountain of Cedars (7,500bc).

August wrote:Yup, a simple solution. I just wonder why some ANE writings that predate the flood speak of mountains that were in existence prior to the flood, and retained at least the same name afterward, like the Mountain of Cedars (7,500bc).

August, do you mean predate the YEC date of the global flood? Because 7500BC may not predate the OEC date of the flood, correct?

RickD wrote:

August wrote:Yup, a simple solution. I just wonder why some ANE writings that predate the flood speak of mountains that were in existence prior to the flood, and retained at least the same name afterward, like the Mountain of Cedars (7,500bc).

August, do you mean predate the YEC date of the global flood? Because 7500BC may not predate the OEC date of the flood, correct?

Yes.

BTW, the YEC argument of how the people breathed on the ark is, that they were at sea level. If the sea rose to cover the highest mountains, this would be true.

However, the real question is, what happened to all that water? For it to go that high, that would be a LOT of water, and it would have to go somewhere, and fast. The YEC ideas about how it went away don't cut the mustard, and are nothing more than vigorous hand waving. If it were underground, we would have found it by now, and we haven't.

RickD wrote:I just thought about this question. If the flood was truly global as some creationists suggest, and the tops of the highest mountains were covered, including Mt. Everest, then how did those on the ark breathe? If Mt. Everest is 29,000 feet above sea level, and water seeks its own level, then the ark must have been floating over 29,000 feet above sea level. How did Noah, his family, and all the animals breathe with the low oxygen levels at that height? Just a thought for the YECs to ponder. I'm sure it's been discussed before, but it's new to me.

The atmosphere simply would be pushed up. Meaning the water level would be ground level for the atmosphere.. Not that I'm trying to defend YEC or anything.

Gman wrote:

RickD wrote:I just thought about this question. If the flood was truly global as some creationists suggest, and the tops of the highest mountains were covered, including Mt. Everest, then how did those on the ark breathe? If Mt. Everest is 29,000 feet above sea level, and water seeks its own level, then the ark must have been floating over 29,000 feet above sea level. How did Noah, his family, and all the animals breathe with the low oxygen levels at that height? Just a thought for the YECs to ponder. I'm sure it's been discussed before, but it's new to me.

The atmosphere simply would be pushed up. Meaning the water level would be ground level for the atmosphere.. Not that I'm trying to defend YEC or anything.

So, you're saying that the amount of oxygen at sea level would be pushed up as the water rises, to form a "new" sea level? I know many YECs don't necessarily believe the floodwaters rose 5 miles high(the height of Mt. Everest), so it may be a moot point. YECs believe that the flood waters rose just high enough to cover the highest mountains at that time, and Mt. Everest may have been formed as a result of the global flood. Gman, what do you think is the best evidence(if any), or best argument for a young earth?

RickD wrote: So, you're saying that the amount of oxygen at sea level would be pushed up as the water rises, to form a "new" sea level?

Yes, that is correct..

RickD wrote:I know many YECs don't necessarily believe the floodwaters rose 5 miles high(the height of Mt. Everest), so it may be a moot point. YECs believe that the flood waters rose just high enough to cover the highest mountains at that time, and Mt. Everest may have been formed as a result of the global flood. Gman, what do you think is the best evidence(if any), or best argument for a young earth?

Well the so called "global flood" is certainly one of the biggest problems for the YEC'ers. Not to mention getting all those animals to fit in the ark and caring for them. Having them drink salt water and such. To tell you the truth, scientifically they don't have a leg to stand on. The only real thing they might have a case is the interpretation of scripture which if you really study it, that pretty much falls apart too.

Well the so called "global flood" is certainly one of the biggest problems for the YEC'ers. Not to mention getting all those animals in the ark and caring for them. Having them drink salt water and such. To tell you the truth, scientifically they don't have a leg to stand on. The only real thing they might have a case is the interpretation of scripture which if you really study it, that pretty much falls apart too.

Yes, the theory of the ark being able to house 2 animals of every kind throughout the entire earth doesn't seem remotely possible to me either. But, Gman, since you believe in OEC, is there anything that been a so called "stumbling block" to you in your OEC beliefs? I guess I'm asking if there is any YEc interpretation of evidence that seems to fit into a young earth model? Like some thing that has made you think, " I know I'm OEC, but "x" really does make more sense in the YEC model"? I've asked this question before to OECs, and haven't gotten an answer. This has lead me to believe that either: 1) OECS don't believe there are any flaws to the OEC model. or 2) OECs aren't secure enough in their position to acknowledge a strongpoint in the YEC model. Or 3) nobody really cares to answer my question.

Well the so called "global flood" is certainly one of the biggest problems for the YEC'ers. Not to mention getting all those animals to fit in the ark and caring for them. Having them drink salt water and such. To tell you the truth, scientifically they don't have a leg to stand on. The only real thing they might have a case is the interpretation of scripture which if you really study it, that pretty much falls apart too.

What? Bologne. There are plenty of models to show how the Ark would more than hold all the Kinds of animals. The geological record itself can be understood as the result of rapid depositoin as flood waters retreated, and thus responsible for why we have so many fossils to begin with.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Noahs-ark-animals.html

If you took all the ocean valleys, and current mtn ranges and leveled them, guess what? The earth would be completely submerged by a large amount. This isn't to say that the earth was level at the time of the flood. Don't try to jump to that conclusion. That is something we can measure today. I mean come on. Scientist believe in an ice age in which much of the Northern hemisphere was covered in ice measuring up to TWO MILES thick in some areas. Yet all the best evidence is melted away. Flood geology does explain why we see such violent upheavels and drops in the earths crust. We don't see rounded mountain ranges. We see jagged violent breaks in the earth. Slow plate drift would have resulted in very different looking ranges due to the constant erosions factors at work.

Everyone believes the earth was completely submerged. YEC, OEC, and Atheistic evolutionists alike. They just differ as to when it was submerged. Period.

http://www.unmaskingevolution.com/18-flood.htm

http://www.earthage.org/EarthOldorYoung ... _flood.htmEven in North America we can find evidence of a flood. We have the remains of complete whale skeletons buried at hundreds of miles inland. These bones are estimated to be less than 10k years old.