Matthew 20:1-10 versus John 20:1and 2.

[rstrats]

Matthew 28:1-10 says that when Mary Magdalene went to the tomb that she was told by an angel that the Messiah had risen and would be seen in Galilee. Matthew then says that she ran "with great joy" to tell the disciples and while on the way that she met the Messiah (this occurred before she got to the disciples).

However, John 20:1 and 2 say that when she came to the tomb and didn’t find the Messiah there, that she ran to the disciples and told them that He had been taken away and that she didn’t know where He was. In Matthew she knew where He was (or at least had been) and where He would be, but in John she didn’t.


How can this be reconciled?

[rstrats]

It should be Matthew 28 and not Matthew 20.

[rstrats]

Ooooops, this probably should be put under the “Bible and Scripture” category.

[Katabole]

Hi rstrats.

Once all four Gospels are applied, and the Word rightfully divided, it is easy to determine the correct sequence of events following the Lord's resurrection, thus reconciling what sometimes appears confusing.

2Tim 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (KJV)

The observation of the women where and how the body was laid. Mt 27:61, Mk15:47, Lk 23:55

The preparation of the spices by the woman from Galilee on the eve of the High Sabbath. Lk 23:56

The visit of the women at the close of the weekly Sabbath, on "the first day of the week". Mt 28:1, Mk 16:1,2 Lk 24:1, Jn 20:1

They ask,"Who shall roll us away the stone?" Mk 16:3

The stone already rolled away. Mt 28:2-4

They find the stone rolled away. Mk 16:4,5, Lk 24:2, Jn 20:1

Address of the angel to the women. Mt 28:5-7, Mk 16:6, 7, Lk 24:3-7

Departure of the women. Mt 28:8, Mk 16:8, Lk 24:8, 9

They meet with the Lord. Mt 28:9, 10

And tell His disciples and Peter. Mk 16:9-11 Lk 24:10, 11 Jn 20:2

The report of the watch. Mt 28:11-15

Mary visits the tomb a second time alone, then tells Peter and John. Jn 20:1

The visit of Peter and John to the tomb, with Mary who remains outside the tomb. Lk 24:12, Jn 20:3-10

Mary visited by two angels, then the Lord, outside the tomb after Peter and John leave. Jn 20:11-17

Mary tells the disciples she saw the Lord. Jn 20:18

In Matt 28:1-10, Mary Magdalene doesn't visit the tomb alone. The angels testimony and meeting the Lord wasn't enough for Mary, probably because she was consumed by grief, so she visits the tomb a second time, Jn 20:1, and then the Lord Himself tells her personally He is risen to give her comfort.

Hope that helps to clarify for you.

[rstrats]

Katabole,

re: "Hope that helps to clarify for you."

I'm afraid it doesn't, but thanks for trying.

[musician]

How can this be reconciled?

The two accounts indicate that Jesus rose from the grave and left it empty. What's to reconcile here?

- Nathan

[rstrats]

musician,

re: “The two accounts indicate that Jesus rose from the grave and left it empty. What's to reconcile here?”

I say "what" in the OP.

[Canuckster1127]

Katabole,

re: "Hope that helps to clarify for you."

I'm afraid it doesn't, but thanks for trying.

Then refute it. Simply stating it doesn't clarify for you is a statement of opinion, not fact.

[musician]

How can this be reconciled?

I find that this reconciles nicely with what can be expected of multiple accounts from different viewpoints. If several individuals witness the same event from different angles and perspectives, they will recall different details reflective of their perception of reality. This is human.

God made humankind, and has repeatedly chosen even broken people to carry out His work amongst us. I therefore find it not only appropriate but highly harmonious given our relationship with God that the gospel accounts should reflect the human quality as well as the Godly.

Remember that under Roman law at the time spreading falsehoods, particularly with the potential for controversy and subsequent unrest such as these, would be punishable by death (as would be tampering with a grave with a Roman seal). For similar reasons, Rome went so far as to place a guard (or guard contingent) at the tomb. It is also worth noting that Pilate could not find any fault with Jesus and would not condemn him except to save his own butt.

Like I said, both tell us Jesus rose from the grave, and that is the point.

- Nathan

[rstrats]

mucician,

So you're ok with John contradicting Matthew?

[musician]

So you're ok with John contradicting Matthew?

John and Matthew declare in accord that Jesus is risen, and I am quite fine with that.

- Nathan

[rstrats]

Canuckster,

re: “Then refute it.”

You’re going to have to help me here. How can I prove that I don’t see something? If you think that the reply satisfies my request, I wonder if you might point out where it specifically does that.



re: “Simply stating it doesn't clarify for you is a statement of opinion, not fact.”

It is a fact. It may clarify it for you, but the fact is that it doesn’t for me.

[rstrats]

Katabole,

re: “Address of the angel to the women. Mt 28:5-7, Mk 16:6, 7, Lk 24:3-7"

Was Mary M. included with the “women” in Matthew 28:5?

[Katabole]

Hi rstrats,

Yes, I do believe Mary M was included in the the plural usage of the word "women" in Matt 28:5. She is mentioned at the beginning of that chapter.

Back in Luke chapter 8, Mary M was exorcized by Christ.

Luke 8:2 And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils, (KJV)

She was certainly grateful to Christ. He saved her life. Returning to the tomb twice on the same day would not be uncommon for someone who loved another, even today. It also shows that women were given witness, which was also uncommon. Here's a link from this site:

The Impossible Faith

http://www.tektonics.org/lp/nowayjose.html

Factor #11 -- Don't Rely on Women!

This one has been brought up many times, but it bears repeating and elaboration. If Christianity wanted to succeed, it should never have admitted that women were the first to discover the empty tomb or the first to see the Risen Jesus. It also never should have admitted that women were main supporters (Luke 8:3) or lead converts (Acts 16).

Many have pointed out that women were regarded as "bad witnesses" in the ancient world. We need to emphasize that this was not a peculiarity as it would be seen today, but an ingrained stereotype. As Malina and Neyrey note, gender in antiquity came laden with "elaborate stereotypes of what was appropriate male or female behavior." [72] Quintilian said that where murder was concerned, males are more likely to commit robbery, while females were prone to poisoning.

We find such sentiments absurd and politically incorrect today -- but whether they are or not, this was ingrained indelibly in the ancient mind. "In general Greek and Roman courts excluded as witnesses women, slaves, and children...According to Josephus...[women] are unacceptable because of the 'levity and temerity of their sex'." [82] Women were so untrustworthy that they were not even allowed to be witnesses to the rising of the moon as a sign of the beginning of festivals.

DeSilva also notes [33] that a woman and her words were not regarded as "public property" but should rather be guarded from strangers -- women were expected to speak to and through their husbands. A woman's place was in the home, not the witness stand, and any woman who took an independent witness was violating the honor code.

It would have been much easier to put the finding of the tomb on the male disciples (as seems to have been emphasized, based on the 1 Cor. 15 creed, though that serves a different purpose of establishing that the church's leadership was a witness to the Risen Christ, not so much an avoidance of the female witnesses), or someone like Cleophas or even Nicodemus, find the tomb first, or to mediate the witness through Peter or John. But they were apparently stuck with this -- and also apparently overcame yet another stigma.

If you still don't understand here's another link:

Six Days Before the Passover

http://www.therain.org/appendixes/app156.html

Honest rstrats, it's really a minor triviality regarding Mary. I agree with muscician, that both accounts tell us that Jesus rose from the grave and that is the point.

[rstrats]

Katabole,

re: “Yes, I do believe Mary M was included in the the plural usage of the word ‘women’ in Matt 28:5.”

Do you believe that Mary M. was included in the “they” in verse 8? If so, what do you think her “great joy” was about?




re: “... it's really a minor triviality regarding Mary.”

I don’t think Biblical writers - who were supposedly inspired by the Holy Spirit - contradicting themselves, is a triviality. However, even assuming that it is (a triviality), what is wrong with discussing it?


re: “If you still don't understand here's another link: Six Days Before the Passover”

I don’t see where your link ”Six Days Before the Passover” mentions anything that would explain the seeming contradiction. What do you have in mind?