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Natural selection and common descent

Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:38 am
by Huldrich
I read some articles here about evolution. As I understood, the God And Science team is against natural selection, as I am. However, it is not very clear what is its position about common descent. Do they believe in independent adult creation? Or is there some other concept? My point of view is that God created all plants, animals and man through what may be called "divine fertilization" of a female of a former species. This way, all living beings have common descent. And it would be the big mutation responsible for what evolutionists call macroevolution. In my opinion, adult creation is absurd because each living being must undergo a learn process form childhood to the adult state in order to survive in a given environnement.

I am wondering how man creationists adhere to "divine fertilization" and to what category it must be attributed: to progressive creationism or theistic evolution?

Re: Natural selection and common descent

Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:55 am
by August
Divine fertilization in my opinion would be classed under theistic evolution. Progressive creationism adheres to adult creation over a long period of time, as far as I know.

Can you expand on how you would give a Biblical defense of common descent?

Re: Natural selection and common descent

Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:55 am
by Huldrich
I have a page on http://historycycles.org/genesis2.html where I point out that Genesis 2:7 does not necessarily mean that Adam was literally created out of dust and in an adult state. For this passage can also be applied to the birth of Jesus because of the comparison between Adam and Jesus made by St. Pauli who considers Christ the First-born of all Christians (Lk 2:7; Col 1:15; Rev 1:5), the Eldest of a multitude of brothers (Rom 8:29) born and adopted by the Holy Spirit (Gal 4:4-7), the new Adam exempt of all sin (Rom 5:12-19). This is why there are a lot of prophetic elements in the Genesis account: the breath of life Adam received from God is an image for the Holy Spirit who conceived Christ in the womb of Mary. Therefore, the pure earth of the Garden Eden, from which Adam was formed, is an image of Saint Mary. This view is hold by some Church Fathers (sorry without sources here).

I also point out that Adam refers to the creation of the angels who did not undergo any developing process as for their coming into existence. This was a rapid instant creation ex nihilo. So if Genesis 2:7 seems to indicate an adult independent creation, this does not necessarily refer to the first man but may be a hint to the instant coming into existence of the angels as "adults".

So to come back to evolution: Since Adam is a precursor of Christ, who was neither made out of dust as an adult but was virginally born from a woman, why not consider that also the first man was born in the same manner just as all other species, that is by divine fertilization? In my opinion, this concept fits best both to science and Bible.

Re: Natural selection and common descent

Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:57 am
by August
Thanks, I will read it. Interesting take.

Re: Natural selection and common descent

Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:07 am
by Huldrich
I found "the Church Father" who was comparing the pure earth of Paradise with Saint Mary. It was St. Andrew of Crete living in the 8th century (so probably no Church Father). But maybe there were others (the problem is that I read a lot of books that I don't have anymore).

In any case, it would be great if you could answer my questions: are there creationists who believe in common descent but reject natural selection? In my opinion, this can only be put together by supposing that God created all new species by supernatural fertilization in a female of a former species.

In fact, I am looking for reliable sources about the different creationism theories to publish on Wikipedia. Without such sources, they will delete any contribution because the editors there are mostly atheists who don't want to make public creationism.