Evidence for God from Science

I was just thinking today.. When we observe science, there are no clear 100 percent markers as to our origins. Nothing solid at all.. Now yes anyone can look at the scientific evidence and come up with their own scientific conclusions, like it was created by a higher intelligence or, no, it was by naturalism or chance, but since no one was here, frankly it could be anyone's guess... Right?

But let's look it at in a different way. If you were God and you didn't want to create robots without jeopardizing their free will, would you make your creations origins well known by leaving an indisputable paper trail to it's creator or would you obscure it enough to make your creations question it?

Let's face it... God has got us questioning our science and our origins. Some say there is a God, others say not... And when we look at the scientific evidence, there truly is no 100 percent solid evidence for any view. Hypothesis, yes, solid evidence, no...

Why? I believe that God doesn't want to impose or expose Himself on our free will.. He didn't want leave a clear paper trail, so He intentionally obscured it. And because of this, He has got many of us questioning His very existence!!

God is not only wise, but he is smart..

And I would have done it the EXACT same way too... And by faith, we acknowledge Him in all things. When we get closer to God, He reveals more to us..

I understand the thought, but at the same time it really depends on how far you think the "paper trail" has been obscured.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I'm willing to bet many people DID see nearly indisputable evidence through Jesus and his workings but still rejected God. Did not angels also fall away? Knowing God exists and acknowledging him in a meaningful way seem to be two different things.

I'm sure the evidence is more than strong, and more than obvious (If God exists). The bible says all men are without excuse, maybe the hiddeness of God appears that way not because God hides from us, but we hide from him.

Echoside wrote:I understand the thought, but at the same time it really depends on how far you think the "paper trail" has been obscured.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I'm willing to bet many people DID see nearly indisputable evidence through Jesus and his workings but still rejected God. Did not angels also fall away? Knowing God exists and acknowledging him in a meaningful way seem to be two different things.

I'm sure the evidence is more than strong, and more than obvious (If God exists). The bible says all men are without excuse, maybe the hiddeness of God appears that way not because God hides from us, but we hide from him.

Yes Romans 1:20.. Oh, as a creationist, I clearly think the scientific evidence points to an intelligent designer.. No question about that. But do I have 100% proof that it is evidence for God? No, and I don't think anyone really could, if that was the case we wouldn't be debating this. No one was there to witness the creation of the world/universe. But that doesn't mean that I still can't be 100% convinced of God either. Much like stepping on to a jetliner, we often make 100% commitments with less than 100% proof. It's still the safest way to travel, but there is always a slight chance that I will not make it to my destination.. Likewise it is the same with our observational science. We can only have weights of evidence, but nothing really conclusive..

Hence, there are going to be times I will need to take it on faith, just like the atheists..

I understand what you are trying to say in that He's not going to leave a clear paper trail to Him because there would be no blind faith, which would mean He's ensuring that He hasn't given us enough evidence to completely solidify any claim (even though certain claims are a lot better than others).

However, if at least some blind faith was an issue, then God would not have appeared to so many people such as Adam and Moses. If it were an issue, why did Jesus show Thomas the nail marks in his wrists Then again, all the evidence possible will not be enough for those who refuse to believe. Look at Lucifer. He was with God, right next to him, and still didn't believe that God was all powerful. He was cast down, and he still doesn't believe that God is all powerful, believing that he can become or is more powerful than God. God gives everyone evidence, and people choose to do what they will with it. People will turn a blind eye from evidence that does not confirm their views, and so Atheists will continue to believe what they do.

Jeremiah 5:21 Hear this, you foolish and senseless people, who have eyes but do not see, who have ears but do not hear:

I don't think God seeks to deceive. I see some possible similarities between this idea and the idea of apparent age that is brought from some directions.

When we speak of "obscuring" things, we're speaking from our perspective in our time. I think most would agree that in terms of material knowlege of this world and its nature, we know more at this point and time than at any time in human history. So we assume, we're at the best point to assess and assume what God has or hasn't done in terms of "hiding" those elements yet remaining from us.

Consider if this question were asked 500 years ago (coming out of the reintroduction of science). The question would be asked of God hiding things that when we look now at what we've discovered and learned are at this point and time, no longer hidden. I don't know when Christ is going to return. I suspect that there are things now that if we were still here as a human race 500 years from now, that those people would look back at us and ther knowledge and they'd see a lot of things for them that they know that we think are now "hidden" from us.

It's natural to look at ourselves and out time and place in time and history and assume that we are the measure of what God has done and why he has "hidden" or "revealed" some things. That's a perspectival bias on our part.

I think God's transcendency and genius in creating this world is such that we will never fully understand everything with regard to this universe. I recall when Stephen Hawking, about 25 years ago made the suggestion that a final understanding of the "singularity" or a theory of everything that comprehensively answered all the question in quantum physics would be achived within 10 years.

Now, I don't know that we won't discover something like that. I do suspect however, that the "answers" we discover will always be to some degree incomplete and raise new questions and we'll never completely come to the end of the questions we have and the knowlege we seek. I think that is inevitable, because God is infinite and we're finite and we're going to have some inherent limitations as to what we can observe and what we can prove.

So is science to some degree obscured? Yes, I think it's fair to say from our perspective it is. I don't think however that it is God purposely "obscuring" things in that regard to hide things from us or to deceive us. I think rather it's a normal product of God's infinite nature and our finite limitations. I also think we need to ask ourselves if we're the sum of everything God is doing in this creation from the perspective of the place we hold in it. I think when we accept that we personally are not the center of the universe personally or even collectively in terms of our place in history, geography and the sum of human knowlege, then we can perhaps take a little more humble approach to our assumptions and the questions we ask based on those assumptions.

My thoughts anyway, for what they are worth.

I too don't think that God is in the deceiving business either.. But the path to our origins is not crystal clear either. It's not blatantly obvious, therefore we do have room for different interpretations of the same evidence. But even spiritually, it's not blatantly obvious when we are walking with God or not.. It seems like it's more of a trust. It would make sense when we are living in a free will society.

Both atheism and creationism are going to have some faith built into it.. It seems we cannot escape it.

Honestly, God has to judge people fairly, so in creating the universe and going about His business in it he would have set it up best he could so that people had a fair choice. ... He couldn't give them nothing to go on, but he couldn't give us everything or make us puppets.

Luke 16:19-31

There is plenty of evidence all around us. But still we always want more. Even if the whole world were shown a miracle, there would be those who would explain it away.

As Julius Ceasar wrote, "In the end, people will believe what they want to believe."