Evidence for God from Science

Has anyone had the experience after being born again that god by his holy spirit purges out the love of alcohol ,gambling,hollywood movies. I had the experience of the things i used to love in the world now i hate. I cant even listen to todays music my life is continually being drawn to i believe to holy things and what gods word says about the world.I love my new life where before i was dead now i am alive in christ.

I can't say I've had the experience to the degree you describe mitchco. I've certainly changed significantly in several areas and in some, I still wrestle and it's a process of change over time rather than right away. For some I can see how complete abstinence from alchohol for example would be a necessary and good things (particularly if the issue if "love" in the sense of an alcoholic. However, there are many things in Scripture which taken to excess are wrong (drunkeness, gluttony etc.) but in moderation and in their proper context God declares 'good" or at least not inherently evil.

I think we can tend at times to put too much emphasis upon that which is "holy" and that which is "worldly". God created us to know Him and enjoy that relationship and I believe there is nothing wrong with enjoying the creation He's given us in its proper context.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. I certainly am not saying that you're wrong to limit or exclude anything if it's something that you find brings temptation into your life. Not everyone's experience in this regard however is the same and where God may bring about an immediate change of heart for some people, I don't believe that those who go through a process of change are any less loved by or committed to Christ, necessarily.

mitchco wrote:Has anyone had the experience after being born again that god by his holy spirit purges out the love of alcohol...

Personally, I love the Lord's Supper myself

mitchco wrote:Has anyone had the experience after being born again that god by his holy spirit purges out the love of alcohol ,gambling,hollywood movies. I had the experience of the things i used to love in the world now i hate. I cant even listen to todays music my life is continually being drawn to i believe to holy things and what gods word says about the world.I love my new life where before i was dead now i am alive in christ.

I can't say my life has been the same as your experience. The change in me has been more gradual over my lifetime. While some may have had alcohol as their "god", many people are truly born-again, and still moderately drink alcohol, watch movies, and even gamble. We as Christians need to be careful not to pass judgment on other believers that do things that the Lord allows us freedom to enjoy. I can still watch a movie, or scratch an occasional lottery ticket without it hurting my walk with God. Whereas someone who was addicted to gambling, and their whole life revolved around it, may not even bet on an occasional Super Bowl, when the Lord changes his heart.

mitchco wrote:Has anyone had the experience after being born again that god by his holy spirit purges out the love of alcohol ,gambling,hollywood movies. I had the experience of the things i used to love in the world now i hate. I cant even listen to todays music my life is continually being drawn to i believe to holy things and what Gods word says about the world.I love my new life where before i was dead now i am alive in christ.

Yes, many people I know report what you reported as happening to them as well. I will include myself too. Something happened to me after the new birth and I no longer desired the world's ways yet there were always battles with its imposing itself upon me after becoming born again but through it all I found the Lord faithful and the bible true. I do not go to movies often and when I do, it is with my wife to some chick flick but there are so few clean movies out there. As for TV, I mostly watch the news and old TV shows and movies on TCM and others that are clean. Call me a bore when it comes to watching media but I still do not desire to watch most of what passes as entertainment these days as most new shows and movies literally grieve me deep inside: they know not what they do…

So, yes, what you stated is not an uncommon experience. Some people report this happening to them, others do not, and still others mention a slow methodical change after the new birth, and still others report a roller coaster ride of ups and downs but always change for the better as a result. I like what one of my friends said about this: God is Omni-personal to all…changing them in a personal way that causes them to always move closer and ever learning to rely on Him.

Be Blest in your walk with the Lord!

Hi BW i enjoyed reading your post. I just want to make mention of how many christians i know that call themselves born again and you see how they live and you have to ask yourself what did god save them from. People always say dont judge but gods word says test the spirits. The Lord says by their fruits you shall know them. How much of gods word is so full of teaching and instruction why because god wants us to be sanctified away from the world. We are to be in the world but not of it. If we are honest like alcohol Proverbs 23:20 be not among winebibbers that means becoming tipsy in banqueting. Man can hydrate himself with many liquids but carnal man chooses alcohol why it alters the senses. The brain gets removed from its stable reasoning into a place of comprimised thought. When Jesus was crucified he put to death every carnal thought and lust. Gambling is lusting after mammon and what it can provide for the flesh. Many are called few are chosen . We all have issues in this life but what God requires is faithfull humble christians which tremble at his word. I heard a messianic believer say many denominations can get in converts to thier system but God is looking for disciples. Do not do the ways of the heathen. I personally know a youth pastor who is in training who at his 21st birthday could not tell me after consuming four bottles of beer at which stage he goes from tipsy to getting drunk.What hypocrisey and this is a person who is reflecting the image of God. Satan himself comes as an angel of light and his ministers are ministers of righteousness. By the Grace of God i got saved by a christian who by strong conviction challenged me in my ways and hit me hard with the word of God. I make no apology for these truths because i am engraven into the palm of his hands he owns my life and he through suffering is changing me into the image of his son. Judgement begins at the house of God.

mitchco wrote:Hi BW i enjoyed reading your post. I just want to make mention of how many christians i know that call themselves born again and you see how they live and you have to ask yourself what did god save them from. People always say dont judge but gods word says test the spirits. The Lord says by their fruits you shall know them. How much of gods word is so full of teaching and instruction why because god wants us to be sanctified away from the world. We are to be in the world but not of it. If we are honest like alcohol Proverbs 23:20 be not among winebibbers that means becoming tipsy in banqueting. Man can hydrate himself with many liquids but carnal man chooses alcohol why it alters the senses. The brain gets removed from its stable reasoning into a place of comprimised thought. When Jesus was crucified he put to death every carnal thought and lust. Gambling is lusting after mammon and what it can provide for the flesh. Many are called few are chosen . We all have issues in this life but what God requires is faithfull humble christians which tremble at his word. I heard a messianic believer say many denominations can get in converts to thier system but God is looking for disciples. Do not do the ways of the heathen. I personally know a youth pastor who is in training who at his 21st birthday could not tell me after consuming four bottles of beer at which stage he goes from tipsy to getting drunk.What hypocrisey and this is a person who is reflecting the image of God. Satan himself comes as an angel of light and his ministers are ministers of righteousness. By the Grace of God i got saved by a christian who by strong conviction challenged me in my ways and hit me hard with the word of God. I make no apology for these truths because i am engraven into the palm of his hands he owns my life and he through suffering is changing me into the image of his son. Judgement begins at the house of God.

Was Jesus a carnal man? How would Jesus fare by the standards and judgments you're establishing mitchco? Again, a man has to follow his own conscience before God. There's a flavor here I'm picking up on that flags me that you may be going beyond personal convictions and believing that you're somehow better than others or that you are more holy than others on the basis of what you do or don't do.

Eph 2:8-9

Mitchco,

You seem to be confusing justication and sanctification. The two go hand in hand, but are not the same. Sanctification is a process, and it seems for you that it happened rather quickly (though I would suggest that you need to train your conscience to the Word of God concerning some things which are not inherently sinful, such as alcohol).

Proverbs 23:20 is an interesting passage. Does it forbid alcohol? Does it forbid food?

We need to take Scripture's warnings concerning alcohol seriously, but we are not forbidden to drink it (unless Jesus was a sinner).

Hi BW i enjoyed reading your post. I just want to make mention of how many christians i know that call themselves born again and you see how they live and you have to ask yourself what did god save them from.

He saved them/you/us from ourselves. The only holy living is living that is yielded to Christ. Not one that decides to cherry pick obvious things like drinking and gambling, not do them, and then declare everyone who does, not saved, or not as saved as we are. Obvioulsy as a believer we should yield every part of our being to His will. And there is absolutely nothing hindering this except our own will. We can try and use religious terminology to try and break it down. (Justified v. sanctified) But the bottom line is that the moment we believe we are blessed with ALL spirtitual blessings in the heavenly places. The issue is not whether we are justified or sanctified, but whether we are yielding to live in our heavenly identity or still remain controlled in this flesh suit. For me, I am ashamed to say, it has often been the latter. And since I have experienced new desires, and a new mind, it makes it all the more frustrating. It reminds me how hopeless I am apart from His grace.

I will agree Mitch as many do, that when we examine the body of Christ (including ourselves) what we see doesn't measure up to what one would expect or hope to see. It frustrates us, but we musn't judge outside the proper measure. A person isn't saved because the are holy. But, they are made holy because they are saved.

This doesn't mean we should ignore inconsistent living within the body of Christ. We are to help remove the spec within our brother's eye. All scripture is useful for teaching, REBUKING, CORRECTING and training in righteousness.

We all have issues in this life but what God requires is faithfull humble christians which tremble at his word.

What God desires and what God requires has been confused. And I think you might be confusing the two in regards to one's personal salvation. God requires us to trust and believe. He does desire us to walk in that belief, and He alone affords us the power to do so.

We are hypocritical. We do do things that are contrary to what we know to be the truth. Ultimately that is why we all need a savior.

mitchco wrote:Hi BW i enjoyed reading your post. I just want to make mention of how many christians i know that call themselves born again and you see how they live and you have to ask yourself what did god save them from. People always say dont judge but gods word says test the spirits. The Lord says by their fruits you shall know them. How much of gods word is so full of teaching and instruction why because god wants us to be sanctified away from the world. We are to be in the world but not of it. If we are honest like alcohol Proverbs 23:20 be not among winebibbers that means becoming tipsy in banqueting. Man can hydrate himself with many liquids but carnal man chooses alcohol why it alters the senses. The brain gets removed from its stable reasoning into a place of comprimised thought. When Jesus was crucified he put to death every carnal thought and lust. Gambling is lusting after mammon and what it can provide for the flesh. Many are called few are chosen . We all have issues in this life but what God requires is faithfull humble christians which tremble at his word. I heard a messianic believer say many denominations can get in converts to thier system but God is looking for disciples. Do not do the ways of the heathen. I personally know a youth pastor who is in training who at his 21st birthday could not tell me after consuming four bottles of beer at which stage he goes from tipsy to getting drunk.What hypocrisey and this is a person who is reflecting the image of God. Satan himself comes as an angel of light and his ministers are ministers of righteousness. By the Grace of God i got saved by a christian who by strong conviction challenged me in my ways and hit me hard with the word of God. I make no apology for these truths because i am engraven into the palm of his hands he owns my life and he through suffering is changing me into the image of his son. Judgement begins at the house of God.

Yes, I agree with you but always must be aware of depending on good works to maintain salvation rather than God’s grace alone. When you bring up this topic, immediately people can wrongfully accuse another of being works oriented and not grace oriented. However, look at what Paul writes about Grace in Titus chapter two. The NIV, though not my favorite translation, translates the verbal impact of the Greek text well:

Titus 2:11, 12, 13, 14, 15c, "For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good. 15 These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you." NIV

The Grace of God, defined in 1 John 1:9 and the book of Romans teaches us to say ‘No’ to sins. It would not say this, if it were not possible. Yes, we all will have our own struggles with sin but know through Christ and the indwelling Spirit, we can start saying no to these single struggles with sin. I have seen alcoholics stop drinking and lose all desire for booze the moment they became born again. They never touch a drop. They learned by God's indwelling Holy Spirit to say and live no to a certian sin. Then God begins to work on other sins until they go home to Chirst.

Others, struggle with the desire until they learn to say No to it and fall into drunkenness often, that is until one day they had enough and really say No to it. Each time, they fail, they learn God’s grace forgives them and shows them a better way. One day, I heard many say to me, one day it dawned on them, they could say No to it and they were free. It was as though God's grace permitted a comparison between two courses of action: life or death. Through this grace, they finally chose life. Apply this to the list of sins we all have and you see that some learn from Grace quickly and other take longer to learn that they now have a choice to sin or not: Freedom or Bondage. Cry out to the Lord... mystery better learned personally...

This is not sinless perfectionism as we become progressively free from one or more sins at a time, then the more subtle ones appear like: pride, one-upmanship, religious presumptions, backbiting, power/control, helplessness, etc, things contrary to manifest God’s Agape and Christ like attitudes. These are more insidious so be careful and seek the Lord and pray that he exposes these if they are in you and walk the 1 John 1:9 way until you are free from these.

When you write of the freedom Christ promises in John 831-34, and experience it, people will compartmentalize the gospel message into two categories: one-Grace and two-Sanctification. That is okay to do as it aids learning but there is so much more that joins the two together than many realize. The reason for the compartmentalization is the fear of relying on works alone. If you find yourself going that way, grace will lead you home. Jesus promised not to let you go. Enjoy the ride.

As for me, I have more faith in Christ’s work and the Holy Spirit working on a person internally setting people free that I am not too concerned how one develops in the Lord as I know He will guide and lead a person and teach them lessons that expose errors, rids one of pride, changing the direction of one’s life, etc and etc. He is more than able. Immediately when you bring this up, some people get upset and start speaking grace verse works ideas while failing to see how the Lord is setting they themselves free, until…

"Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." 33 They answered Him, "We are Abraham's descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, 'You will be made free'?" 34 Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin." John 8:31, 32, 33, 34c -NKJV

Jesus said to abide in his word, be his disciple, learn the truth and become free. We human beings make this so hard through our intellectualizing. Through this hardness we learn of the grace that teaches us to say no to sins and becoming set free and learning to live free.

This I know that the Lord will do in the heart of all His believers, taking them on a omni-personal journey towards the freedom His Grace brings. Once you grasp this, the easier it becomes and you learn to endure all things by relying on Him alone. Amen
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