Evidence for God from Science

Exactly what the title says.

Noah, John 3:16 tells us how someone is "saved". I think you need to do some research on the Mormon "jesus" to see if he is the same as the Jesus of the bible. You can find the answer to your question there.

In addition to believing in the Son, do you think people need to believe all of the correct details about the Son in order to be saved? If so, there is probably a very small number of people who are actually saved. Jesus probably did not have white skin and brown hair, are people who think he did saved?

I personally think Mormons are saved even though they have quite a few details incorrect. As far as I know (I could be wrong) they still believe He died as a sacrifice for humanity.

Noah1201 wrote:Exactly what the title says.

Then the answer would be No...
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Seraph wrote:In addition to believing in the Son, do you think people need to believe all of the correct details about the Son in order to be saved? If so, there is probably a very small number of people who are actually saved. Jesus probably did not have white skin and brown hair, are people who think he did saved?

I personally think Mormons are saved even though they have quite a few details incorrect. As far as I know (I could be wrong) they still believe He died as a sacrifice for humanity.

Seraph, I bet if you do an in depth study of the Jesus of Mormonism, you'll come to the same conclusion that I did. The mormon jesus is not the same as the Jesus of the bible.

You may well be right. From what I know though, they accept Jesus as Redeemer but also believe in addition that He is the child of God the Father and the Holy Spirit (being the role of the mother), and that Satan is His brother who believed contrary to Him that humans are inherently evil while Jesus believed they were good.

According to who they think Jesus is - then probably no. Though at the end of the day - we couldn't know for sure. Remember God is a God of Grace. We certainly don't deserve to be saved. I think we will be very surprised to see who is in Heaven - hopefully we willbe there ourselves to be surprised

Seraph wrote:You may well be right. From what I know though, they accept Jesus as Redeemer but also believe in addition that He is the child of God the Father and the Holy Spirit (being the role of the mother), and that Satan is His brother who believed contrary to Him that humans are inherently evil while Jesus believed they were good.

Two problems here:

1.) They do not accept Jesus as Redeemer (in the Christian sense of the word), but rely totally on their own works.

2.) They deny the Jesus is God (he more like "a god" of this earth, just like we will be some day). Jesus's Father Elohim, in the Mormon faith, is an entirely different entity.

"I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he [lit. "I AM", the word "he" is not there in Greek] you will die in your sins." (John 8:24)

So Mormons are not saved.

If one takes Mormon's to be saved, then it is close to just wholeheartedly accepting universalism, because Mormonism is very much different than Christianity on almost everything. Scripture spends a good deal of its space talking about right Doctrine and proper understanding of the faith, and for good reason: to prevent people from thinking that cults like the Mormon church are Christian in nature. Otherwise, everyone with a desire for undeserved wealth and fame would be calling themselves a prophet and trying to do something similar (not that this doesn't happen a lot already).

Generalizing about groups is well and good but God takes people one at a time and whatever label is affixed to a person in the end will not be the determining factor of their salvation. It will be what they have done with Jesus Christ in tems of acceptance as Savior, not necessarily how closely they align with what we consider to be orthodox theology, as important as that is. Further it will God who makes that determination, not us. I would be concerned for those in Mormonism as their doctrine does present Jesus in many lights as other than the New Testament does. Further I'm aware that there is a very strong works foundation within their communities. That doesn't preclude however any of them from personally accepting Christ even if they continue in peripheral error in other important, but not cardinal areas.

But just calling some person "Jesus" doesn't mean that you are actually following Christ. The Mormon "Jesus" is so off from who Christ actually is (in tons of ways), that you might as well not call him that to clear up confusion.

MarcusOfLycia wrote:But just calling some person "Jesus" doesn't mean that you are actually following Christ. The Mormon "Jesus" is so off from who Christ actually is (in tons of ways), that you might as well not call him that to clear up confusion.

What I hear you saying is that you think that anyone who accepts the Mormon faith as it is taught and modeled by the official doctrine of the organization has some serious issues to address in terms of whom they are trusting for salvation. I agree with that. What I'm trying to gently point out is that not everyone who has the label "Mormon" affixed to them necessarily accepts everything that organization teaches and in the end God will judge everyone on a basis outside of whatever labels they have attached to them.

I just think we need to be cautious making universal, absolute statements when it comes to issues that only God can judge and which take the focus off of the prime issue here which is Jesus Christ and how we accept Him (or are accepted by Him if that's your particular perspective.)

In that sense, I agree that titles don't mean anything. Someone could be a Catholic, a Protestant, an Orthodox, or anything else and still not be a Christian (or could be one), because being called something is more reflective of other's opinions and not of one's own heart.

I apologize if I was unclear in this, as I probably was. When I am talking about Mormons and Mormonism here, I'm talking about those who actually embrace the tenents of Mormonism as it is defined. In that case, it simply isn't the same Jesus. Could a Mormon believe in the true Christ? I suppose so, though hopefully they'd try to get out of the Mormon circle quickly to have a more Biblical and Christ-centered belief system. But the title doesn't really mean much. I was just under the impression that what was referred to was someone who truly believed the Mormon doctrine as opposed to Christian doctrine on the area of Christ and the nature of God. It's true that other issues might not weigh so heavily, but those issues are really key (as is the nature of man and sin, really).

I don't mean to judge the heart of anyone who calls themselves a Mormon. As you rightly pointed out, judgement in such matters is reserved for God alone. But we do have a lot of information in Scripture about what happens when charismatic leaders lead people astray, and those words are very harsh. There are actions to be taken as Christians to prevent people like that from preaching false Gospels. Because of that, I think it is safe to judge actions and compare them with Scripture, while being careful, as difficult as it is, to avoid judging the heart of the people committing those actions. If we don't judge their actions, we never come to the conclusion they need the truth, and we never bring it to them.

No condemnation of you or others was implied.

I understand what's being said here. At most perhaps we're speaking of a hypothetical individual who accepts all the official teachings of the Mormon Church.

Not everyone who comes here would necessarily pick up on that and might read more into what I think is being meant and that's the only reason I wanted to clarify and seek some care in how we state things here. I'm not defending Mormonism. I'm just trying to keep the focus on Christ.

jlay posted this in another thread:

Right faith in the correct message. There may be many Mormons who are saved, simply because they are not intimately familiar with all that Mormonism teaches about Jesus and His message. Any Mormon has access to the bible. However, if they first are indoctinated into the Mormon teachings, and then told to interpret the bible through this lens, they are going to come to a false message.

That seems to be the simplest and best answer imo. There are probably many people in different religions or cults that may be saved. But, they are saved despite the teachings and doctrine of their church. Not saved because of the false doctrine that they are taught.