First of all i would like to say hi to everyone who participates on this forum. I have been looking around on this site and on these forums for about a month now and i really think you guys do a great job with your discussion here. Currently i hold a belief that there has to be a creator, and that Christianity is the front runner of all other religions. I love the Bible and have been satisfied with the answers i get from it in response to my original questions and doubts about God and Atheistic arguments but i am constantly thinking of new questions that make me wonder.
So recently i have been thinking .. If the bible is truly the inspired word of God, why would English translations have errors in their translation? Why are their Hebrew and Aramaic words that could mean multiple things in English? I would expect God to also assist in making sure the translations are 100% correct and inerrant as well right? I know there are mistranslations in others bible such as the NIV but are there also mistranslations in KJV? I have heard there are, but I'm sure that could just be a matter of opinion? What do you guys think?
If the Bible is divine, translations should be perfect?
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Katabole
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Re: If the Bible is divine, translations should be perfect?
Hi Zcaz,
I use a number of tools in my studies to help me understand the Word. When I meet someone who is interested in knowing more about Christianity, I have in the past bought the NIV translation and given it to a number of people as a gift. I buy that one because it is written in modern English and it has some decent commentaries. It is a good enough work to get a new Christian weaned on the 'milk' of the Word. However, you are right, there are some glaring omissions in that work and it is not a Bible that I personally use.
I use the KJV most regularly in my studies (not the 1611 version). I also use the Green's Interlinear Bible and the Moffat Bible. I use the KJV because I find it closer in translation to the Textus Receptus. I also use it because it does have errors and some terrible mistranslations. Here are a couple of examples:
Psalm 22:21 Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the UNICORNS. (KJV)
As you know the unicorn is a mythical animal. The word rendered UNICORNS in the English means in actuality a wild bull in the Hebrew language.
Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. (KJV)
This is how the verse should read:
Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, close up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end: many shall turn aside, and wickedness shall be increased.
Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek are fixed languages. In English we may have ten words to describe something, where in coloquial Greek, there may be only one or two words.
When it comes to controversial passages or passages that I am unsure of, I employ the Massorah. The Massorah are a series of corrections to let the reader of the ancient scrolls know what word, or words were to be employed in any given passage, in order to lock in the correct meaning of the text and hence protect it from alteration. Some believe that the Massorah was created in the 10th century AD. I do not. If you read the books of Ezra and Nehemiah closely, you wil find that after the return of Jews to Judah from their captivity in Bablyon, Ezra did a census on how many leviticul priests there were, and there were none; they were still back in Babylon. The priesthood had been taken over by nethemims, those given to service. So instead of leviticul priests doing the work, those who gathered wood and lit fires were acting as priests. Therefore, in order to protect the text of the scrolls, the Massorah was created. You can read of it in Neh 8:8 and Ezra 7:6,11.
Dr. Christian Ginsburg did an exhausting work back in the 19th century called the Massorah. He was a Polish Jew that converted to Christianity and he spent thirty years of his life going to museums and synagogues, copying all of the Massorotic footnotes and he painstakingly cross-referenced them all and published it in a four volume set, which frankly, is one of the greatest works in the English language. You could probably find it in any good public or university library and the only copy of it I have seen for sale was over $7500.00. Here is the essay on the Massorah which you should read first; it's about 90 pages long:
The following is volume 4 of the Massorah. It's quite a read, over 500 pages long. You will need an Adobe reader to view it.
http://www.teachittome.com/seforim2/sef ... orah_6.pdf
The original KJV had a letter from the priests and scribes that King James employed that has never been reprinted, when it really should have been. The letter, written to King James and the readers, states and I'll paraphrase, that they did their best to interpret the ancient languages but they may have made some mistakes (which they did). So here's a copy of that letter if you want to read it.
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/pref1611.htm
I also use a Strong's Concordance, so I can look up any word in the Bible. Here's a KJV with Strong's:
http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/index2.htm
And last but not least, I use the Smith's Bible dictionary if I want to look up any proper name, name of place or historical Bible figure.
http://www.studylight.org/dic/sbd/
Other members on this site may use different Bibles, but these are the tools I use to understand the Word.
Hope that helps you. Ron.
I use a number of tools in my studies to help me understand the Word. When I meet someone who is interested in knowing more about Christianity, I have in the past bought the NIV translation and given it to a number of people as a gift. I buy that one because it is written in modern English and it has some decent commentaries. It is a good enough work to get a new Christian weaned on the 'milk' of the Word. However, you are right, there are some glaring omissions in that work and it is not a Bible that I personally use.
I use the KJV most regularly in my studies (not the 1611 version). I also use the Green's Interlinear Bible and the Moffat Bible. I use the KJV because I find it closer in translation to the Textus Receptus. I also use it because it does have errors and some terrible mistranslations. Here are a couple of examples:
Psalm 22:21 Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the UNICORNS. (KJV)
As you know the unicorn is a mythical animal. The word rendered UNICORNS in the English means in actuality a wild bull in the Hebrew language.
Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. (KJV)
This is how the verse should read:
Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, close up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end: many shall turn aside, and wickedness shall be increased.
Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek are fixed languages. In English we may have ten words to describe something, where in coloquial Greek, there may be only one or two words.
When it comes to controversial passages or passages that I am unsure of, I employ the Massorah. The Massorah are a series of corrections to let the reader of the ancient scrolls know what word, or words were to be employed in any given passage, in order to lock in the correct meaning of the text and hence protect it from alteration. Some believe that the Massorah was created in the 10th century AD. I do not. If you read the books of Ezra and Nehemiah closely, you wil find that after the return of Jews to Judah from their captivity in Bablyon, Ezra did a census on how many leviticul priests there were, and there were none; they were still back in Babylon. The priesthood had been taken over by nethemims, those given to service. So instead of leviticul priests doing the work, those who gathered wood and lit fires were acting as priests. Therefore, in order to protect the text of the scrolls, the Massorah was created. You can read of it in Neh 8:8 and Ezra 7:6,11.
Dr. Christian Ginsburg did an exhausting work back in the 19th century called the Massorah. He was a Polish Jew that converted to Christianity and he spent thirty years of his life going to museums and synagogues, copying all of the Massorotic footnotes and he painstakingly cross-referenced them all and published it in a four volume set, which frankly, is one of the greatest works in the English language. You could probably find it in any good public or university library and the only copy of it I have seen for sale was over $7500.00. Here is the essay on the Massorah which you should read first; it's about 90 pages long:
The following is volume 4 of the Massorah. It's quite a read, over 500 pages long. You will need an Adobe reader to view it.
http://www.teachittome.com/seforim2/sef ... orah_6.pdf
The original KJV had a letter from the priests and scribes that King James employed that has never been reprinted, when it really should have been. The letter, written to King James and the readers, states and I'll paraphrase, that they did their best to interpret the ancient languages but they may have made some mistakes (which they did). So here's a copy of that letter if you want to read it.
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/pref1611.htm
I also use a Strong's Concordance, so I can look up any word in the Bible. Here's a KJV with Strong's:
http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/index2.htm
And last but not least, I use the Smith's Bible dictionary if I want to look up any proper name, name of place or historical Bible figure.
http://www.studylight.org/dic/sbd/
Other members on this site may use different Bibles, but these are the tools I use to understand the Word.
Hope that helps you. Ron.
There are two types of people in our world: those who believe in Christ and those who will.
If Christianity is a man-made religion, then why is its doctrine vehemently against all of man's desires?
Every one that is of the truth hears my voice. Jesus from John 18:37
If Christianity is a man-made religion, then why is its doctrine vehemently against all of man's desires?
Every one that is of the truth hears my voice. Jesus from John 18:37
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Canuckster1127
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Re: If the Bible is divine, translations should be perfect?
Why would it follow that inspiration requires perfect preservation?
Dogmatism is the comfortable intellectual framework of self-righteousness. Self-righteousness is more decadent than the worst sexual sin. ~ Dan Allender
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MarcusOfLycia
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Re: If the Bible is divine, translations should be perfect?
A comparison you might want to draw for this to make more sense would be to look at Israel. They also had written word from God, but they had a terrible habit of messing up what was considered actually divine and what was their man-made law. At one point in their earlier history, they lost the law and it wasn't until Hezekiah that they found it again... at least we can say we've always known where the Bible has been (granted, at some points its been more difficult to access than at others).
-- Josh
“When you see a man with a great deal of religion displayed in his shop window, you may depend upon it, he keeps a very small stock of it within” C.H. Spurgeon
1st Corinthians 1:17- "For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel””not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power"
“When you see a man with a great deal of religion displayed in his shop window, you may depend upon it, he keeps a very small stock of it within” C.H. Spurgeon
1st Corinthians 1:17- "For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel””not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power"
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secretfire6
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Re: If the Bible is divine, translations should be perfect?
there is a warning in the back of the Bible about changing things in it on purpose, but it doesnt say that its impossible to change or anything about mistakes with translation. It will happen, we are human, but there is allways a way to find out what the right words are, what they mean and how they understood them back then. It just takes some work and most people don't bother. Unfortunately thats where Churches and false docterine rush in to take advantage