Evidence for God from Science

I have heard muslims use this argument as a justification of jihad by Prophet Isa (their version of jesus).

Jesus replied "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me"

Does anyone know what this verse means or how it can be interpreted ?

Taken out of context it may seem that way. The verse in context however is within the Parable of Talents, so it most definately is not a commandment to murder non-Christians or a justification for a jihad. The parable conveys a message but It's not supposed to be a direct literal parallel to everyday life.

yeah that seems fair.I guess I saw it as Jesus directly quoting it after finishing the parable but he wasnt.Thanks.

PS - Being in the heartland of muslims and hindus , I duel them daily on all the scriptures and I was looking for something to arm me.This site is great with all it's resources and discussions

illegal6 wrote:yeah that seems fair.I guess I saw it as Jesus directly quoting it after finishing the parable but he wasnt.Thanks.

PS - Being in the heartland of muslims and hindus , I duel them daily on all the scriptures and I was looking for something to arm me.This site is great with all it's resources and discussions

Also they are being Hypocrits as Muslims believe that the New Testament has been corrupted by the Christians anyway - so why are they using our scripture to justify their actions?

illegal6 wrote:I have heard muslims use this argument as a justification of jihad by Prophet Isa (their version of jesus).

Jesus replied "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me"

Does anyone know what this verse means or how it can be interpreted ?

Even if it was taken literally, who is Jesus' enemies? Non-believers? NO, he sees them as lost sheep of the flock, feeding themselves on bad things. I'd say jesus' enemies are satan, the fallen angels and the biggy, SIN. Since satan and Angels are spirit beings and cannot be "slain" It is most likely sin that is dying. Thats my best response anyway

God be with you

The verse is at the conclusion of a parable. Jesus used Parables to teach and illustrate one particular point. Parables are not allegories. Every part of a parable doesn't have a particular one-to-one application. Often times the elements within a parable are just to make a strong point. I think that's what's at work here. Jesus is using a secular ruler as an example to make his point. He's not necessarily endorsing slaying other people. That would fly in the face of Jesus' other teachings and example when it comes to violence and the wars of earthly kingdoms. When Jesus gives clear teaching in one portion of Scripture it's a safe bet that he's not contradicting that by including an element that contradicts it in a parable. He's simply making another point and that element in the parable highlights the point of the parable, nothing more.

Canuckster1127 wrote:The verse is at the conclusion of a parable. Jesus used Parables to teach and illustrate one particular point. Parables are not allegories. Every part of a parable doesn't have a particular one-to-one application. Often times the elements within a parable are just to make a strong point. I think that's what's at work here. Jesus is using a secular ruler as an example to make his point. He's not necessarily endorsing slaying other people. That would fly in the face of Jesus' other teachings and example when it comes to violence and the wars of earthly kingdoms. When Jesus gives clear teaching in one portion of Scripture it's a safe bet that he's not contradicting that by including an element that contradicts it in a parable. He's simply making another point and that element in the parable highlights the point of the parable, nothing more.

well said. My response was for the extreme, if you absolutely HAD to answer someone who only took it literally and didnt understand the point of parables. As a believer and lover of Christ, it's very difficult for me to read any contradictions in Christ's words. I like how smoothly you explain it though...something i'm horrible at. I'm sure you'll see what I mean if you come across some of my other posts

illegal6 wrote:I have heard muslims use this argument as a justification of jihad by Prophet Isa (their version of jesus).

Jesus replied "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me"

Does anyone know what this verse means or how it can be interpreted ?

I, too, have seen Muslims using this verse to prove that Jesus commanded His followers to kill disbelievers.

An interpretation can be found in the following link:

http://www.rc.net/wcc/parabl16.htm

And this:

Now we need to look specifically at verse 27:

Luke 19:27, "But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them - bring them here and kill them in front of me."

This "command" from Jesus is actually part of a parable as mentioned above, rather than a direct command. The parable is apparently meant to illustrate what will occur when God judges the world. One of those events will be the "second death" of those who rejected God, i.e. their condemnation to hell, which is what 19:27 illustrates.

Can the king's command in the parable be interpreted as a command to Christians to slay unbelievers? There are several points that go against this interpretation:

1. The parable is clearly not meant to be interpreted too literally. The king in the parable is obviously not strictly analogous to God, for he admits he is unethical. Even skeptics must admit that Jesus would not intend to openly teach that God is unethical.

2. If Jesus meant to give a direct command, he would have done so directly, as he often reinforced important points after telling a parable.

3. Such a command would contradict Jesus' earlier teaching, where he rebuked the disciples for suggesting that a village that rejected him be destroyed.

4. The parable is a picture of God's future judgment, not present-day judgment by humans. God is the one who will execute final judgment - as in fact Jesus' teaching mentioned in the previous point illustrates. Other judgment-day parables illustrate that it is God who will be in charge of the judgment, and there is no reason to interpret those as a command to Christians to execute judgment now.

5. A nearly identical version of the parable in Matthew 25:14-30 has the master commanding the lazy slave to be thrown "outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth," which can hardly be interpreted as a literal command.

Some skeptics object further that even if the parable isn't teaching that Christians should kill unbelievers, it's teaching that God will ruthlessly destroy anyone who disagrees with him. However, this is not an accurate picture. God will judge and condemn those who reject him, but he has the right to do so and he does so as a judge who must punish evil but is grieved that he must punish those he loves.

http://www.rationalchristianity.net/slay_enemies.html

Good luck.

Christian2 wrote:

illegal6 wrote:I have heard muslims use this argument as a justification of jihad by Prophet Isa (their version of jesus).

Jesus replied "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me"

Does anyone know what this verse means or how it can be interpreted ?

I, too, have seen Muslims using this verse to prove that Jesus commanded His followers to kill disbelievers.

An interpretation can be found in the following link:

http://www.rc.net/wcc/parabl16.htm

And this:

Now we need to look specifically at verse 27:

Luke 19:27, "But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them - bring them here and kill them in front of me."

This "command" from Jesus is actually part of a parable as mentioned above, rather than a direct command. The parable is apparently meant to illustrate what will occur when God judges the world. One of those events will be the "second death" of those who rejected God, i.e. their condemnation to hell, which is what 19:27 illustrates.

Can the king's command in the parable be interpreted as a command to Christians to slay unbelievers? There are several points that go against this interpretation:

1. The parable is clearly not meant to be interpreted too literally. The king in the parable is obviously not strictly analogous to God, for he admits he is unethical. Even skeptics must admit that Jesus would not intend to openly teach that God is unethical.

2. If Jesus meant to give a direct command, he would have done so directly, as he often reinforced important points after telling a parable.

3. Such a command would contradict Jesus' earlier teaching, where he rebuked the disciples for suggesting that a village that rejected him be destroyed.

4. The parable is a picture of God's future judgment, not present-day judgment by humans. God is the one who will execute final judgment - as in fact Jesus' teaching mentioned in the previous point illustrates. Other judgment-day parables illustrate that it is God who will be in charge of the judgment, and there is no reason to interpret those as a command to Christians to execute judgment now.

5. A nearly identical version of the parable in Matthew 25:14-30 has the master commanding the lazy slave to be thrown "outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth," which can hardly be interpreted as a literal command.

Some skeptics object further that even if the parable isn't teaching that Christians should kill unbelievers, it's teaching that God will ruthlessly destroy anyone who disagrees with him. However, this is not an accurate picture. God will judge and condemn those who reject him, but he has the right to do so and he does so as a judge who must punish evil but is grieved that he must punish those he loves.

http://www.rationalchristianity.net/slay_enemies.html

Good luck.

Great point Christian2!