Evidence for God from Science

Here's a fun little question. I imagine all answers would have to be purely speculative since there is no answer based only on scripture.

What do you think (or rather imagine) God did for pre-eternity before creating our universe? Has he created, sustained, and destroyed an infinite number of previous universes before ours? What do you think?

Seraph wrote:Here's a fun little question. I imagine all answers would have to be purely speculative since there is no answer based only on scripture.

What do you think (or rather imagine) God did for pre-eternity before creating our universe? Has he created, sustained, and destroyed an infinite number of previous universes before ours? What do you think?

Destroyed? That's an interesting way of thinking.

It is my opinion that God has always been creating, is creating, and will continue to create whatever He deems good.
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Well I just say destroy because it seems apparent that God intends for our current universe to be destroyed eventually, both from the Bible and from science (Big Rip, Big Freeze, etc...). Perhaps God has gone through several races before humanity in other universes where he laid out the choice of salvation and ressurected them in his "permanent" universe (aka Heaven). Maybe Angels are saved beings from a previous universe and our universe is just one out of an infinite set of universes that God has and will create and bring to an end.

With a lot of emphasis on "maybe".

Keep in mind that the whole idea of 'doing' is a human thing. God doesn't do, He is.

God didnt create the universe because He was borred. He is the creator. Also note that we think of these things in reference to time, because it is the only thing we can relate to. God is timeless. There are no clocks ticking. The God head is perfectly full in all things at all 'times.' So God wasn't doing anything. He was being, is being and will continue to be.

God isn't limited by time but it seems to me that it can be seen in the Bible where God does choose to do things in subsequent order (i.e. on a timeline). God's actions in the Bible take place one after another and Revelations describes things that God is planning to do in the future. So while not all the time, God seems to at least some of the time do things in a linear way like a person would. In the same way, the creation of the universe occured at a certain point in time (whenever that might have been), and the end of the universe will (probably) occur at a certain point.

The idea also has me thinking, if God doesn't "do" but only is, what do you think our relationship with Him will look like once we are finally with Him in the New Jerusalem/New Earth/New Heaven? Will we be the same way, not doing anything but existing? How will be able to interact with Him directly?

Of course it would seem that way to us. And, yes God is ordered and purposeful in His being.

In the same way, the creation of the universe occured at a certain point in time (whenever that might have been), and the end of the universe will (probably) occur at a certain point.

Nope. Remember, time is a part of the universe. Space, time, matter. God is transcendent, timeless, and immaterial. Anytime man tries to tackle the issue of infinity it just winds up in mess.

Time (what we call it) did in fact have a beginning.

Will we be the same way, not doing anything but existing? How will be able to interact with Him directly?

The Bible says we will be made like Him.

That's mind-boggling to think about. I guess I've always believed God to be timeless but never really stopped to think to that extent about what timeless means.

Seraph wrote:Well I just say destroy because it seems apparent that God intends for our current universe to be destroyed eventually, both from the Bible and from science (Big Rip, Big Freeze, etc...). Perhaps God has gone through several races before humanity in other universes where he laid out the choice of salvation and ressurected them in his "permanent" universe (aka Heaven). Maybe Angels are saved beings from a previous universe and our universe is just one out of an infinite set of universes that God has and will create and bring to an end.

With a lot of emphasis on "maybe".

My first intuition is to disagree. This would mean that Christ's physical image has either changed multiple times to the created being (assuming that the creation is not always human) or that Christ has died in human form multiple times.
I don't think this is possible as it would bring up questions about God's ability to eradicate sin once and for all.
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Wouldn't sin re-enter a world (even after being conquered at a previous point) each time God were to create a new race capable of free will and good/evil? For example, in humans if Adam didn't sin against God, eventually some human would've misused the free will God gave them and would've sinned. I would imagine this would be the case whenever God gives intellegent beings the ability to choose or reject Him, Perhaps it is necessary and part of God's plan to provide Himself as a sacrifice for them each time.

Or, perhaps God's covenant with them is a different nature entirely from ours, maybe He hasn't given them free will to reject Him, but at the same time the praise and love He recieves from them is less genuine.

Or or, perhaps in some cases they aren't even intellegent creatures made in God's likness (like humans) and God doesn't even offer a personal relationship with them.

Seraph wrote:Wouldn't sin re-enter a world (even after being conquered at a previous point) each time God were to create a new race capable of free will and good/evil? For example, in humans if Adam didn't sin against God, eventually some human would've misused the free will God gave them and would've sinned. I would imagine this would be the case whenever God gives intellegent beings the ability to choose or reject Him, Perhaps it is necessary and part of God's plan to provide Himself as a sacrifice for them each time.

Or, perhaps God's covenant with them is a different nature entirely from ours, maybe He hasn't given them free will to reject Him, but at the same time the praise and love He recieves from them is less genuine.

Or or, perhaps in some cases they aren't even intellegent creatures made in God's likness (like humans) and God doesn't even offer a personal relationship with them.

I think the answer lies in the sly twisting of words of Satan intermingled with Truth of, "Didn't God say..." and later God saying...:

Genesis 3:4,5 NIV wrote:"You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Genesis 3:22 NIV wrote:And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

It is the knowledge of good and evil, the real knowledge, meaning what sin actually does, that keeps other beings from sinning and will keep the saved from sinning again into the infinite future. Christ will always have His nail-pierced hands and His scarred side to attest to what sin is and does.

It's like your child that is curious to play with fire. You tell them time and time again to keep away from the candle flame, but one day they stick their hand or finger in it for too long. They get burned. Now the lesson is learned and they know what fire can do and so avoid being burned again. The knowledge was always there, Adam and Eve both understood the tree was off limits, but now they KNOW why.

Seraph wrote:Wouldn't sin re-enter a world (even after being conquered at a previous point) each time God were to create a new race capable of free will and good/evil? For example, in humans if Adam didn't sin against God, eventually some human would've misused the free will God gave them and would've sinned. I would imagine this would be the case whenever God gives intellegent beings the ability to choose or reject Him, Perhaps it is necessary and part of God's plan to provide Himself as a sacrifice for them each time.

Or, perhaps God's covenant with them is a different nature entirely from ours, maybe He hasn't given them free will to reject Him, but at the same time the praise and love He recieves from them is less genuine.

Or or, perhaps in some cases they aren't even intellegent creatures made in God's likness (like humans) and God doesn't even offer a personal relationship with them.

Seraph, have you ever read the C S lewis space trilogy? You really should because they devle into interesting things like this.

Well God did create a race of beings before us. I mean the angels didn't just appear. In truth I think that might be it, whatever he did before this reality of time and space is beyond my comprehension.

Seraph wrote:Here's a fun little question. I imagine all answers would have to be purely speculative since there is no answer based only on scripture.

What do you think (or rather imagine) God did for pre-eternity before creating our universe? Has he created, sustained, and destroyed an infinite number of previous universes before ours? What do you think?

I think God made a planet of many beautiful golf courses and played golf but after endless holes-in-one, He got bored. Thats my 'fun little' answer.

Well thats just silly...

Everyone knows God is a hardcore bowling fan. He wouldn't be caught dead on a golf course.

Seraph wrote:Well thats just silly...

Everyone knows God is a hardcore bowling fan. He wouldn't be caught dead on a golf course.

True, in that God can't die. Bowling ? I suppose He would keep quite far from the gutters but also get bored with 300 games. Hmmm, God never threw a spare. Sorry, my glass of wine is a bit bigger than normal.