Evidence for God from Science

Some theologians have argued that lustful thoughts, if put in the context of a marriage covenant, may not be sinful. What's your take on that?

Noah1201 wrote:Some theologians have argued that lustful thoughts, if put in the context of a marriage covenant, may not be sinful. What's your take on that?

I don't know what there is to debate here... We are to live by the spirit.. It's all in Galatians 5: 13-26.

Life by the Spirit

Galatians 5:13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh[a]; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[c] you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

Don't get me wrong--I'm not looking for excuses to lust. I can suppress my lustful tendencies very easily.

But I don't think it's anywhere near as clear-cut as you think. None of the passages you posted even mention lust.

Why would lust not be included as part of sexual immorality? or even 'desires of the flesh'? Does lust promote love, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, or self-control?

A Y323 wrote:Why would lust not be included as part of sexual immorality? or even 'desires of the flesh'? Does lust promote love, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, or self-control?

One could ask precisely the same questions with respect to encouraging one's sexual desires in the context of a marriage. Isn't that, too, a "desire of the flesh"? Does it promote patience, goodness or self-control?

Noah1201 wrote: One could ask precisely the same questions with respect to encouraging one's sexual desires in the context of a marriage. Isn't that, too, a "desire of the flesh"? Does it promote patience, goodness or self-control?

Many places..

Matthew 5:28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Romans 1:26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.

Best explained here... http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/p ... tians.html

I would think it would be much easier to justify lust outside the confines of marriage rather than in it(not that I do). When you're single, you aren't being directly unfaithful to anyone by lusting. I'm not sure why it would become okay once you're married to someone.

Edit: I read the Noah's post again and it occured to me that he might be referring to lust directed towards your spouse. In this case, I would think lust would be extremely rare since lust is usually the intense desire for someone that you can't or shouldn't have. I would think "lust" directed at the spouse would just be sexual attraction.

A side random question relating to lust: For single people, where do you draw the line between sexual attraction and lustful thoughts? If you were to dismiss all sexual attraction as lust or "desires of the flesh", nobody would ever end up together. I'm not sure that one can say that romantic love is what should bring couples together since that doesn't manifest itself until later in the relationship (so I'm told).

Lust is lust is lust. In the context of marriage, sexual attraction is not lust. Lust within a marriage is treating your partner as an object rather than a person with whom you have a relationship. It's less an issue of trying to legalistically setting up "rules" as to what constitutes lust. It's a heart attitude more than anything else in my opinion and experience.

But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Matthew 5:28

I think Canackster has got it, nice answer!

Yep, Canuckster has got it.

But this makes me wonder.

But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Matthew 5:28

What if they are just imagining there girlfriend & himself in the future, with kids? Cause I've read that in a book. Does it count if they see them married (without lust)?

Lust is a very natural feeling, we all have it.
We lust after someone we find attractive, we lust after a new car, a new job, a promotion perhaps.
To deny we have these feelings is to feed them, we must understand them, where they come from and why we feel that way.
Its not about suppression really, but about understanding what drives lust and in knowing that, how to deal with it.
In our fallen state, we are subject to the illusion that we can control and dominate these natural urges, but as Paul reminds us, even he had problem with that - He knew what was right but still found himself doing what was wrong.
Why do we do that? Because we are under the incorrect impression that we CAN do something about it ourselves and we can't, we need Christ to guide and strengthen Us, we need the Holy Spirit in us because " for man it is not possible, but for God all is possible".

by Noah1201 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:05 am

Some theologians have argued that lustful thoughts, if put in the context of a marriage covenant, may not be sinful. What's your take on that?

I think the modern term lust implies a vast meaning rather than just a fantasy obsession. In marriage lust becomes strong attraction because the very term "lust" points that it is something that one doesn't have or cannot have and thus covets for it. but if you imagine having kids and family with the girl you love, nah i don't think it falls in the lust category, why it is wrong for having thoughts about loving someone you want to marry.

I think what Jesus meant by this:

by mandelduke » Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:36 pm

But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

was that we should not make someone an object for our own self interest. to me it has to do with the act of sex as sex itself is unholy without love. But why would I be blamed if i think about someone i love and want to marry, that to me just doesn't make any sense at all as my intentions are not only good for me but for the other person as well who loves me too.

Maybe it does not count for marriage, in a pure sense.
It's basically if whether yor are Having sex TO the partner, or WITH the partner.