Evidence for God from Science

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW4LLwkg ... grec_index

^The Church of Oprah...

You know if i ever met some one like her with those beliefs and i wanted to actually make her understand the things she has no idea of and what comes out of her mouth... i wouldn't have any idea where to begin...

So.. Let's break it down...

What do they teach?

1) Who you are requires no belief.
-Who you are DOESN'T require belief. At least a billion people don't believe in God and Jesus as the only way to salvation, and they are who they are.

2)Heaven is not a place, but refers to the inner realm of consciousness.
-Who here can prove that heaven actually is a place such as Boise, ID or Dallas, TX?

3) The man on the cross is an archetypal image. He is every man and every woman.
-If God is everything, and Jesus was God's physical form on earth, the God IS every man and woman.
-Can't comment of the archetypal image part as I have no real proof (outside of the bible) that Jesus was in fact crucified.

4) My mind is part of God's. I am very holy.
-We were created in his image, no? You can do all things through the power of Christ... That includes being very holy, correct?

5)My holiness is my salvation.
-If you are holy, and thus, believe in God, then is that holiness not your salvation?

6)My salvation comes from me.
-God helps those who helps themselves. If you use your free will to believe and follow God, was it not you who possessed the will to be redeemed of your sins?

7) There is no sin
-OK.. This one's a reach.. What's right and wrong is wholly determined upon the majority of train of thought in society.

8)Don't make the pathetic error of "clinging to the old rugged cross"
(firstly, I almost want to say that the word 'pathetic' might have been added in.. )
-The world moves differently now than it did in Jesus' time. Just like it moved differently 2000yrs before Jesus' time. Stop holding onto beliefs that originated during a time when Lightning & Thunder were just the sounds of a lesser god being mad.

9)The only message of the crucifixion is that you can overcome the cross.
-I don't think this is really the 'only' message gained from the crucifixion..

So... To me, it sounds like Tolle has taken 2000-6000yr old philosophies and made them more in line with a centralized theme: It doesn't matter who/what you believe in, just do good throughout your life.

Who'll get into heaven?
1-An atheist who tries to do nothing but good for others, himself and society as a whole?
2-A serial killer/kleptomaniac/child raper, who upon their death bed, accepts Jesus as the one true savior (and truly means it)?

Big Top... I feel your comment was kind of rude. Are you here to convert people to Atheism? Do you enjoy it when people try to convert you to Christianity?

Have you thought about meditating instead of being angry at people who want to believe differently than you?

(By the way, I don't like all the Atheist hate here either... hate is wrong in any form.)

bigTop wrote:Who here can prove that heaven actually is a place such as Boise, ID or Dallas, TX?

The Christian concept of heaven has always been defined as being a place we enter at a future time. Can you prove heaven is the "inner realm of consciousness" ? Better still, can you show that the Christian concept of heaven has ever meant the "inner realm of consciousness" ?

bigTop wrote:If you are holy, and thus, believe in God, then is that holiness not your salvation?

No.

bigTop wrote:God helps those who helps themselves. If you use your free will to believe and follow God, was it not you who possessed the will to be redeemed of your sins?

No.

bigTop wrote:What's right and wrong is wholly determined upon the majority of train of thought in society

This is just an assertion and wholly arbitrary.

bigTop wrote:The world moves differently now than it did in Jesus' time. Just like it moved differently 2000yrs before Jesus' time. Stop holding onto beliefs that originated during a time when Lightning & Thunder were just the sounds of a lesser god being mad

.

Rhetorical only.

bigTop wrote:It doesn't matter who/what you believe in, just do good throughout your life

Well, that’s all dandy, but just imagine for a moment that the Christian is right and the way to salvation is through Christ. Do you think your cuddly advice would be appreciated by those who chose to follow it?

bigTop wrote:Who'll get into heaven?
1-An atheist who tries to do nothing but good for others, himself and society as a whole?
2-A serial killer/kleptomaniac/child raper, who upon their death bed, accepts Jesus as the one true savior (and truly means it)?

Do you believe in a heaven?

Why is it every atheist that comes here comes simply to insult and has no real want to learn or question our religon

Why is it every atheist that comes here comes simply to insult and has no real want to learn or question our religon

they are pretty sure of what they believe, like us, only they think we are nuts worshiping unicorns.

neo-x wrote:

Why is it every atheist that comes here comes simply to insult and has no real want to learn or question our religon

they are pretty sure of what they believe, like us, only they think we are nuts worshiping unicorns.

The thing is however, most christians have looked into, read about, and attempted to understand the concept of atheism ( I know I have), but most atheist refuse to listen or even think to aknowledge any bit of evidence for god or the bible (or have an open mind to it), and humerously, many that do, convert.

Generally their disagreement comes in form of rudeness and that is not something that flys with me as I am generally over obsessive about my value code, and respect to others is high on that list.

Let me re-state my favorite quote

"Rudeness is the weak mans interpretation of strength"

Generally their disagreement comes in form of rudeness and that is not something that flys with me as I am generally over obsessive about my value code, and respect to others is high on that list.

Most atheists are rude because the general belief is that theists are less intelligent, narrow minded, angry people, which is quite far from the truth. They don't even think when they talk to us. And secondly, most atheist don't even know why they do not believe in a God, they simply don't do and since they do not know the "why" they just listen to trash talk and then re-apply it. In other words they search for absurd arguments and then they have reasons to not believe.

neo-x wrote:

Generally their disagreement comes in form of rudeness and that is not something that flys with me as I am generally over obsessive about my value code, and respect to others is high on that list.

Most atheists are rude because the general belief is that theists are less intelligent, narrow minded, angry people, which is quite far from the truth. They don't even think when they talk to us. And secondly, most atheist don't even know why they do not believe in a God, they simply don't do and since they do not know the "why" they just listen to trash talk and then re-apply it. In other words they search for absurd arguments and then they have reasons to not believe.

It's kind of funny; one of the reasons I origonally converted to christianity was because never wanted to be classified as an atheist because of how the majority of them acted.

And your assessment of them is spot on, they truley do not even generally debate when they come here because they think we are below them.

neo-x wrote:Most atheists are rude because the general belief is that theists are less intelligent, narrow minded, angry people, which is quite far from the truth. They don't even think when they talk to us. And secondly, most atheist don't even know why they do not believe in a God, they simply don't do and since they do not know the "why" they just listen to trash talk and then re-apply it. In other words they search for absurd arguments and then they have reasons to not believe.

I'd like to see some evidence that "most" atheists are rude. Or even that the average atheist is more likely to be rude than the average Christian. From what I've seen, there are plenty of obnoxious individuals on both sides.

Murray wrote: It's kind of funny; one of the reasons I origonally converted to christianity was because never wanted to be classified as an atheist because of how the majority of them acted.

That's just utterly ridiculous. You might as well convert to Scientology because you don't wanted to be associated with the Crusaders.

That's just utterly ridiculous. You might as well convert to Scientology because you don't wanted to be associated with the Crusaders.

Let's have a history lesson about the crusades.

The crusade was called on by the byzantine emporer Alexios I Komnenos, due to muslim barbarians pillaging, conquering and slaughtering all throughout the byzantine lands and were closing in on the byzantine capital of constantinopal. Muslims, once having conquered byzanine, could have and most defininatly would have began a conquest of eastern europe establishing strong muslim presence in the region. Now with eastern europe now islamic, the ottomans would have began a conquest of a disorganized and weak west europe and christianity would be an extint religon. Urban II saw this threat and in a ditch effort to unite the knights of europe under a cause, he chose the one thing that could unite them; their religon. Along with elliminating the muslim threat to the east, the pope also saw this as a chance to re-gain the biblical holy land, but this was not the main goal as im sure your knowledge on the topic has lead you to believe. Im sorry if historical facts don't play in to your distorted view of the first 2 crusades. And Tell me.. How many people died in the first 2 crusades? Im sure you will be surprised. (Hint: more people died in 2 days in world war I (started by and atheist) than in the entire 100 year span on the first 2 crusades)

And if you want to play the "dUR U kilD PpL" game then lets look at some awsome atheist!!

-Stalin
-Hitler
-Pol pot
-Castro
-Lenin
-Mao
-Gavrilo Princip





Do you need more?

I think that, deep down, the concept of actually having to answer for your actions to someone that KNOWS why you did them, is a very scary concept for some people.
I think that personal spirituality makes people more comfortable and less threatening.
No belief in God is even less threatening and more comfortable but not totally acceptable by all people.
I don't know any person how believed in a loving, caring devoted God, as taught and revealed to us by Christ, to become an atheist.
I do know a few atheiests that were Christians and believed in a vengeful and freightening God that demanded works and blind obedience for their salvation.

Murray wrote:-snip-

Dear, what the hell are you on about? I was just saying that it's ridiculous to change a worldview because you don't like being associated with its ill-behaved members. This is not only illogical (because the behavior of individuals subscribing to a belief system is irrelevant as to its truth value), but it can also be applied to any other worldview, including Christianity (hence the example of the Crusades). Pointing out how atheists have also killed people misses the point.

^

I do not believe I said it was the whole reason did I?

Just one of many...

neo-x wrote:
Most atheists are rude because the general belief is that theists are less intelligent, narrow minded, angry people, which is quite far from the truth. They don't even think when they talk to us. And secondly, most atheist don't even know why they do not believe in a God, they simply don't do and since they do not know the "why" they just listen to trash talk and then re-apply it. In other words they search for absurd arguments and then they have reasons to not believe.


I'd like to see some evidence that "most" atheists are rude. Or even that the average atheist is more likely to be rude than the average Christian. From what I've seen, there are plenty of obnoxious individuals on both sides.

Noah you are not an atheist, but even if that would be the case, please see that this is a christian forum, now how many atheists do you see here? how many of them do you see being bashed??? now please visit some atheist forums and let us see how many Christians do you see there, and then let us see how many of them are bashed and treated rudely. I am sure you will find a lot of evidence.

I am certain there are aggressive people in every sect but hey we are not bashing people for the fun of it. When an atheist come here and ask questions, we try to the best of our abilities to answer their questions, even if they are rude in the beginning. When we ask question, most of them just turn rude, ridicule us for our belief. The majority is like this, like it or not. Please tell me, how many atheist do you see or know who do not think that theists are misguided, forceful people who are putting their children future in danger by teaching them about God, a friend in the clouds. please can you show me some atheists like these. Of course you can say that this argument cut both ways, but at least we are trying to be respectful. Something that most atheist take granted for and take advantage of even.

When someone talks bad about your family, your parents, your loved ones, makes jokes about them, call them names. wouldn't you just want to punch them square in the face. well, what happens when they ridicule our heavenly father. When an atheist is making fun, he should not be getting any respect, you get what you deserve, at least in this matter. If an atheist is sincere or honest, fine that is fair, i see no problem with that. He doesn't have to agree with me but if he is just here to insult than I see no reason to not to return the favor.