No Hell?

[Gman]

There is a lot of debate among Christians if there is or isn't a literal hell.. First things first. Jesus did in fact talk about hell on numerous occasions Luke 16:22-28.. Either Jesus lied about hell or told the truth. Which is it?

And now we have people that have had visitations from hell..

http://www.sidroth.org/site/News2?abbr= ... le&id=9780

And from Bryan (B.W.) another moderator here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piHZkKFdsFc

All I know is that I wouldn't take any chances on this stuff if you truly honor your life.. Believe me, it's not worth it. Repent and turn to Christ by acknowledging Him as Lord and savior!

No hell? NO!! Know hell...

[Kristoffer]

There was no hell in the old testement though, god restricted his pain and torture to just your life and didn't have the unanimity of needing to do anything to you after your death, hell is just a big stick to threaten people with. Amusingly to non-Christians its just as good as saying, "You will go to a Penal Colony on Jupiter."

Wheres the evidence beyond the bible that hell is Real? If you are going to say NDE's then i think thats fairly amusing since they always seem to correspond to the religion of the person having one, not every religion can be right can they? Yes its a threat but fortunately noone in the village i live in has had the gumption to tell me it yet, well except one guy and they got shook up a bit but unhurt.

[Seraph]

For me, the question isn't whether Hell exists according to the Bible (it clearly does), but rather what Hell is like. Is it a place of literal physical agony or a state of your soul having eternal seperation from God (causing "the flames"). I think there is plenty of biblical evidence for the latter, such as the hebrew word for Hell being synonymous with the grave. Jesus mentioned flames and pain when He talked about Hell, but He also mentioned seeds being sown on a field when talking about peoples spiritual willingness. He was fond of using vivid images to help get a message across, though they are often times not completely literal. When looking strictly at the Bible, Hell can be seen as many different ways though its clear that its what you want to avoid since its seperation from God.

The idea that Hell is a place where you experience the highest possible degree of agony as you get whipped by daemons with whips of fire as you stand on burning coals was developed much later in history during the middle or dark ages. This idea of Hell I think is much what Kristoffer said, a big stick used to scare people. Jesus never mentioned it in this light.

[Kristoffer]

Why would the church invent hell.Why? Nothing to gain from that? Also if Hell is oblivion then why worry about it at all?


Don't forget the Forks pushed into your behind.

[Seraph]

The church didn't event Hell. I say some people associated with the church really over-expanded on it with the purpose of instilling fear in people, but the idea of Hell in general has been around far longer than the churches that did that. Dante Alighieri, one of the big ones I think, lived 1200 years after the New Testament was written.

Hell's purpose is NOT to get people to follow God out of fear, more it's their natural destination if they choose to live apart from God. Without atonement, you live with your sins for eternity apart from God, who doesnt tolerate sin.

[Gman]

Why would the church invent hell.Why? Nothing to gain from that? Also if Hell is oblivion then why worry about it at all?


Don't forget the Forks pushed into your behind.

The Church didn't invent anything.. Hell is a place that wasn't intended for man but man puts himself there when he or her rejects God. God doesn't put us in hell, WE put ourselves into hell. That message is very clear.

So are we going to play games here? With our very souls? Sorry.. As for me, I don't take chances on these things...

[Kristoffer]

Its not a game its a threat. What exactly do you mean by "taking chances" because if you mean what i think you mean then thats just silly.

[CeT-To]

Its not a threat, its a place which has got nothing to do with God eg no love, no brotherhood, no happiness etc etc

So really its the people who put themselves in there because they did not want to have anything to do with God.

[B. W.]

Its not a threat, its a place which has got nothing to do with God eg no love, no brotherhood, no happiness etc etc

So really its the people who put themselves in there because they did not want to have anything to do with God.

Ce To - you took the words right out of my mouth - you are right on the mark!
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[Kristoffer]

I have love brotherhood and happiness here in sweden. You are saying that unless i accept Jesus then what awaits me after i die is a eternity of "not-happiness, not-brotherhood and not-love" in What way is that not threatining? Also how is it believable? Since you have to die to "go there" then how is it believable? If hell was deep under the earth as it was in the past then atleast we could dig to it and find that it is a real place. How do we get evidence for your modern hell?

[Seraph]

It's not intended to be a threat, it's a natural consequence is what Cel-To is saying. Even though it definatly serves as an incentive.

Also, you can't have evidence for everything, especially something like that. If you think about it, the idea that everything that exists in the omniverse should be directly detectable by our five senses is pretty proposterous. What are the chances that nature would give us adequate enough perceivers to witness everything that takes place?

[Kristoffer]

our five senses is pretty proposterous.

our "five senses" plus instrumentation. Oh and we have more than just those 5 traditional senses. What if its just imaginary? Undetectable and imaginary sound very similar.

[Seraph]

Fine then, our five senses plus instrumentation. We can count that as a sixth sense, but we still have the same problem. Instrumentation still only provides results that we can detect with our senses. Instrumentation has still failed to come up with a grand unified theory or solve the question of what came before the Big Bang, because our instrumentation is insufficent to measure those things. I value science as much as anyone else, but concerning things like that our instrumentation is limited and so is the amount of truth we can discover using it.

Hell might be a six dimensional reality, but we are limited to our three dimensional reality with instrumentation and all. If spiritual things like Heaven, Hell, God, and the Devil are like this, theres no way we could hope to get evidence for them whether they exist or not, unless one reveals itself to us.

[B. W.]

I have love brotherhood and happiness here in Sweden. You are saying that unless i accept Jesus then what awaits me after i die is a eternity of "not-happiness, not-brotherhood and not-love" in What way is that not threatening? Also how is it believable? Since you have to die to "go there" then how is it believable? If hell was deep under the earth as it was in the past then at least we could dig to it and find that it is a real place. How do we get evidence for your modern hell?

Kristoffer, I could quote many of your posts that verify a true condescension against God unless He submits to your terms but I’ll spare the readers this.

You need to ask yourself, why would God want to live next door to a guy like yourself who holds such a chip on the shoulder and false ideas about God, who He is, and how He should act, or anyone else for that matter?

If God did not permit a person the ability to reason, think, come to terms with things in an independent manner, how could God really be absolutely just in all things and matters? People can bellyache that God is so unjust all they want too for not fixing things right, right now, but do you really desire a tyrannical tyrant to orchestrate the governance of all things, or one who permits reason, delegation, and mental freedom to govern through?

If you don’t want to live with God, then is it unjust for Him to grant a person their personal request? Such a person would need to know what they threw away and where such place is and is like. Jesus spoke of such a place and warned people about it. The decision is up to the person. He never forced one to believe in him – he governs by Grace.

Questions comes to this: Who do you trust more? Self? Ideologies? Philosophy? Or the Governor of the Universe who proves he is patent with us, asks us, warns us, let’s us be mentally free to decide matters?

That is the type of Love God has and for demonstrating that kind of love daily, people continue to spit on him, mock, and blame him for everything that he delegate to us to freely fix, abuse, or just plain ignore. And for this, people think it wrong for God to dare hold people to account for their own actions eternally…

Who is it that is abusing such freely granted endowments that make the world, (even in Sweden) such a mess? Yes, there will come a time when God makes the universe free from sin’s ruin and decay but for now be thankful there is a time when the ruin is exposed, brought to the surface, and dealt with such absolute just manner toward all. Now is the time and the day of salvation, a time to decide where one wants to live eternally and with whom...

...Someone who grants liberty (John 8:32, 34, 35, 36, 45c) or motivates governorship through tyranny (John 12:31, 32c – John 8:44c).

And God lets us decide – what does that reveal and say about God? Whom do you want to spend eternity with?

Matthew 25:41
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[Kristoffer]

Kristoffer, I could quote many of your posts that verify a true condescension against God unless He submits to your terms but I’ll spare the readers this.
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Med andra ord skapar vi oss vårt eget helvete, det finns inom oss om vi tillåter det.

If you want to quote go ahead, i try not to offend but honesty comes first.

adjö