no matter the circumstance, if you hear it, you're damned?
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:45 am
First off, I want to apologize for the length of this post, there's alot on my mind.
During my insomniatic bout tonight, I found myself at this forum with some unanswered questions, and i'm hoping by starting my own discussion I can get some help. I'm fine for years, and then one night when I can't sleep I realize I might die very soon- and I panic.
First, my background.
I was born to a Catholic father and a Baptist mother- they eloped only after they found out they were pregnant with me. My mum was 19 and my dad was 23, and he had to borrow a car from a friend to pick up my mum for their wedding after his parents found out she wasn't Catholic and refused to have anything more to do with him. They tried to stick together for 2 years, but eventually divorced. My dad returned to his parents, who forgave him since he saw the "errors of his ways" and I didn't see or hear anything from his side of the family until 4 years later, when his new girlfriend found out he had a 6 year old daughter he wasn't taking care of and demanded he see me.
My dad's parents finally counted me as a grandchild then, but I always knew at that young age that something was wrong with me, the way the aunts always whispered about my parents when they had too much wine... how I'll never really "count" because I shouldn't have happened if my parents were devout in their faith.
My mum eventually remarried, this time to a Lutheran man, once again after finding out they were pregnant... you see the trend? I was baptized at the age of 8 and later started my catechism in his church at 13. I had always condsidered myself to be strong of faith, even if it was at times a little confusing.
Eventually though, things weren't so easy. I was part of the christian groups at school, but it seemed so fake, all just a show. You show up for morning prayer and then go back to your gossip and flirting and cussing and partying. We had a megachurch in our small town that everyone went to, contemporary with the projection screens and youthful minister and rock band. It all seemed to be distracting, and I never really fit in with the "jesus freaks" because I wasn't witnessing and living for God every second of the day. I never understood the phrase "holier than thou" until highschool- where people would actually turn up their nose at you if you were the least bit shakey in your faith. I even went to a huge event in where I saw musicians like Toby Mac and Relient K. But all that seemed fake once I started to look closely... The concert scene distracted from the whole point. Kids would sneak off to smoke pot or have sex because it was one huge, unsupervised teen party. Eventually the youth minister was caught having an affair with a 14 year old, but no one was bothered by it because he came out and apologized for it, and he was "such an awesome leader anyway". Slowly I started to question everything: How my parents taught me from day 1 how important it was to follow their faiths- while both demominations preaching against the other. Why would God condemn those who never even had a chance to hear the word, when all these christians did whatever they wanted, only to crawl back every sunday to say "oops... I screwed up again... Forgive me?" How can we say our faith, which is so flimsy for the majority of us, is right, and condemn those who believe differently? Let's say my mum was jewish, or buddist? I would have grown up hearing the word from the judging, neglectful side of the family, but taught different beliefs from the more reliable side. I slowly started leaning over the years towards and agnostic attitude: from the beginning of time we've been searching for God, but who am I to say what's correct? If I choose wrong, no matter it be christianity, buddism, or islam, I'm damning myself. Nights like these I get that feeling that I'm screwing myself over and want to scramble back to my roots because I've spent the most time there.
Fast forward to my senior year. I meet a wonderful, caring man after some really (really!) crappy boyfriends (one of whom liked to spout scripture to me to prove my suboordination!) This man is my best friend, my lover, and my family; the only constant thing i've had in my life for the past 6, years. He's what has helped me through 5 funerals, my father trying to crash my life, and my mother's suicide attempts. We don't look forward to marriage, because between his family's track record and mine, it's a sort of curse. We do know one thing we want- a family. But we want to wait until we are able to give our child everything we weren't able to have.
One of the issues I'm having now- and I'm going to explain his family's outlook on religion in a bit- is as a "soft-boiled" agnostic (as I've seen it described on here) could I deal with the guilt of possibly damning my child by not raising them in a christian household? And what of my boyfriend, who is completely agnostic? I know whatever I decide he'll support me 100%, but to get him to believe? That would take, well, a miracle.
This would be a good time to tell you how he grew up. His family is Siox. From a reservation in Oaklahoma. I've had long discussions with his mum about her family- how her mother was taken away from home and left at a boarding school and never saw her parents again. How her brother stoof on the step and asked "what did we do wrong? What is wrong with us?". How they were taught that generations of beliefs were wrong, their whole identity as a people was ignorant and disgusting, and if they were to be accepted into society they would abandon it completely. Their whole nation is still hurting from this upheavel, and everyone else likes to think it's history- like the revolution or slavery. Needless to say in the school they went through the motions because it was the way to survive, but it was impossible to be treated this way and take this completely foreign faith to heart the way it was dished out. Am I to believe that because they've heard the word, even though the circumstances were... monsterous... they are all damned?
And I know there's a few people out there who'd say "well, it's your responsibility to show them that christianity is about Christ's love and giving yourself to Him."
Yeah, but 1.) I have issues myself.
2.) Do you want to be the one to pick open that large scab?
It is questions like these that keep me up at night.
During my insomniatic bout tonight, I found myself at this forum with some unanswered questions, and i'm hoping by starting my own discussion I can get some help. I'm fine for years, and then one night when I can't sleep I realize I might die very soon- and I panic.
First, my background.
I was born to a Catholic father and a Baptist mother- they eloped only after they found out they were pregnant with me. My mum was 19 and my dad was 23, and he had to borrow a car from a friend to pick up my mum for their wedding after his parents found out she wasn't Catholic and refused to have anything more to do with him. They tried to stick together for 2 years, but eventually divorced. My dad returned to his parents, who forgave him since he saw the "errors of his ways" and I didn't see or hear anything from his side of the family until 4 years later, when his new girlfriend found out he had a 6 year old daughter he wasn't taking care of and demanded he see me.
My dad's parents finally counted me as a grandchild then, but I always knew at that young age that something was wrong with me, the way the aunts always whispered about my parents when they had too much wine... how I'll never really "count" because I shouldn't have happened if my parents were devout in their faith.
My mum eventually remarried, this time to a Lutheran man, once again after finding out they were pregnant... you see the trend? I was baptized at the age of 8 and later started my catechism in his church at 13. I had always condsidered myself to be strong of faith, even if it was at times a little confusing.
Eventually though, things weren't so easy. I was part of the christian groups at school, but it seemed so fake, all just a show. You show up for morning prayer and then go back to your gossip and flirting and cussing and partying. We had a megachurch in our small town that everyone went to, contemporary with the projection screens and youthful minister and rock band. It all seemed to be distracting, and I never really fit in with the "jesus freaks" because I wasn't witnessing and living for God every second of the day. I never understood the phrase "holier than thou" until highschool- where people would actually turn up their nose at you if you were the least bit shakey in your faith. I even went to a huge event in where I saw musicians like Toby Mac and Relient K. But all that seemed fake once I started to look closely... The concert scene distracted from the whole point. Kids would sneak off to smoke pot or have sex because it was one huge, unsupervised teen party. Eventually the youth minister was caught having an affair with a 14 year old, but no one was bothered by it because he came out and apologized for it, and he was "such an awesome leader anyway". Slowly I started to question everything: How my parents taught me from day 1 how important it was to follow their faiths- while both demominations preaching against the other. Why would God condemn those who never even had a chance to hear the word, when all these christians did whatever they wanted, only to crawl back every sunday to say "oops... I screwed up again... Forgive me?" How can we say our faith, which is so flimsy for the majority of us, is right, and condemn those who believe differently? Let's say my mum was jewish, or buddist? I would have grown up hearing the word from the judging, neglectful side of the family, but taught different beliefs from the more reliable side. I slowly started leaning over the years towards and agnostic attitude: from the beginning of time we've been searching for God, but who am I to say what's correct? If I choose wrong, no matter it be christianity, buddism, or islam, I'm damning myself. Nights like these I get that feeling that I'm screwing myself over and want to scramble back to my roots because I've spent the most time there.
Fast forward to my senior year. I meet a wonderful, caring man after some really (really!) crappy boyfriends (one of whom liked to spout scripture to me to prove my suboordination!) This man is my best friend, my lover, and my family; the only constant thing i've had in my life for the past 6, years. He's what has helped me through 5 funerals, my father trying to crash my life, and my mother's suicide attempts. We don't look forward to marriage, because between his family's track record and mine, it's a sort of curse. We do know one thing we want- a family. But we want to wait until we are able to give our child everything we weren't able to have.
One of the issues I'm having now- and I'm going to explain his family's outlook on religion in a bit- is as a "soft-boiled" agnostic (as I've seen it described on here) could I deal with the guilt of possibly damning my child by not raising them in a christian household? And what of my boyfriend, who is completely agnostic? I know whatever I decide he'll support me 100%, but to get him to believe? That would take, well, a miracle.
This would be a good time to tell you how he grew up. His family is Siox. From a reservation in Oaklahoma. I've had long discussions with his mum about her family- how her mother was taken away from home and left at a boarding school and never saw her parents again. How her brother stoof on the step and asked "what did we do wrong? What is wrong with us?". How they were taught that generations of beliefs were wrong, their whole identity as a people was ignorant and disgusting, and if they were to be accepted into society they would abandon it completely. Their whole nation is still hurting from this upheavel, and everyone else likes to think it's history- like the revolution or slavery. Needless to say in the school they went through the motions because it was the way to survive, but it was impossible to be treated this way and take this completely foreign faith to heart the way it was dished out. Am I to believe that because they've heard the word, even though the circumstances were... monsterous... they are all damned?
And I know there's a few people out there who'd say "well, it's your responsibility to show them that christianity is about Christ's love and giving yourself to Him."
Yeah, but 1.) I have issues myself.
2.) Do you want to be the one to pick open that large scab?
It is questions like these that keep me up at night.