Now would be a good time...

[Gman]

To make a decision for Christ.. What else does God have to do to get our attentions?? How many earthquakes does it take?

[secretfire6]

im with you buddy. its mind boggling that with all the growing frequency and intensity of the disasters flowing over the world that people are still either ignoring it all or digging deep into the scientific, physical cause. what's even more sad is that most of the folks with their heads in the sand are the "christians".

[Seraph]

I'm not jumping to say that the Second Coming is happening because I'm mindful of a Boy Who Cried Wolf scenario.

Matthew 24:23-27
23“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him." 24“For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect." 25“Behold, I have told you in advance. 26“So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them." 27“For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be."

Plus, there is a scientific explanation for Earthquakes, Tsunamis, and their recent frequency. Japan lies right on top of several convergent tectonic plate boundaries, which create Earthquakes, which in turn create Tsunamis from their shockwaves. It's not an excuse for unbelief, thats just how it is.



If God wanted to perform a miracle to get humanity's attention, I don't think that the God I know would choose to do so by killing over a thousand people in an Earthquake that was the result of natural processes. I just don't see it happening.

[Gman]

If God wanted to perform a miracle to get humanity's attention, I don't think that the God I know would choose to do so by killing over a thousand people in an Earthquake that was the result of natural processes. I just don't see it happening.

Was Noah's flood of God? We don't exactly know why things like this happen in this life, true...

Explained in detail here: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... icity.html

But even if incidents like this were of God, would you still love Him?

[Seraph]

Course I would. Noah's flood had a purpose though and was clearly an act of God. This just feels different to me, like it's just a purposeless tragedy that God didn't actively bring about. I could always be wrong though.

[jlay]

"I set My rainbow in a cloud, and it shall be for the sign of the covenant [promise] between Me and the earth. It shall be, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the rainbow shall be seen in the cloud; and I will remember My covenant which is between Me and you and every living creature of all flesh; the waters shall never again become a flood to destroy all flesh." Gen 9:13-15

The flood waters of the tsunami have taken the most lives. Now, I'm a global flood guy. But if you are a local flood proponent......? Well, God doesn't break his promises. In the age we live in, wrath is being stored up for the day of wrath, in which His righteous judgment will be revealed. (Rom 2:5)
I've also seen people going on about the 11th. As if God is playing cosmic Soduku with the earth.

[Byblos]

"I set My rainbow in a cloud, and it shall be for the sign of the covenant [promise] between Me and the earth. It shall be, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the rainbow shall be seen in the cloud; and I will remember My covenant which is between Me and you and every living creature of all flesh; the waters shall never again become a flood to destroy all flesh." Gen 9:13-15

The flood waters of the tsunami have taken the most lives. Now, I'm a global flood guy. But if you are a local flood proponent......? Well, God doesn't break his promises. In the age we live in, wrath is being stored up for the day of wrath, in which His righteous judgment will be revealed. (Rom 2:5)
I've also seen people going on about the 11th. As if God is playing cosmic Soduku with the earth.

That's not an issue for local flood proponents because even with a local flood humanity was still concentrated in the vicinity of the local flood. In other words, it would take a truly global flood now for God to break His promise, even for local floodies.

[Noah1201]

I don't mean to offend anyone, but honestly, I find the idea that an omnipotent and omniscient God would kill thousands of people just to "attract attention" to himself both stupid and evil. Stupid, because there are far more intelligent and potent ways for an omnipotent being to attract attention (who, exactly, except Christians is going to think of the Christian God when some random earthquake occurs? If the disaster's purpose was to get people's attention to the Christian God, then it failed miserably). Evil, for obvious reasons.

Before someone starts yelling at me, notice that I am not attacking Christianity per se here. There are numerous Christians who would agree with me on this. I'm addressing the particular idea laid out in this thread.

im with you buddy. its mind boggling that with all the growing frequency and intensity of the disasters flowing over the world that people are still either ignoring it all or digging deep into the scientific, physical cause. what's even more sad is that most of the folks with their heads in the sand are the "christians".

Because there are perfectly plausible natural explanations? Haven't we learned from the past that magical explanations have an extremely bad track record?

[MarcusOfLycia]

God has killed lots of people and sometimes it looks like the goal was to get attention. The way to look at it is that this life is not all there is. It is a training ground. We often think that if bad stuff happens this side of heaven, we need some explanation for it. Truth is, this side of heaven is bound to be bad... we shouldn't question it; we should expect it.

If you take a look at God's eternal timeline, killing people over here is pretty trivial. He is more interested in our eternal souls than our temporal life. I'm not saying God enjoys suffering or killing or anything like that. I'm saying that there are things worth suffering and dying for.

[Noah1201]

I haven't read the whole Bible so I cannot comment on that. In some contexts, however, such an action might make more sense than here. For example, if God punished Israel during the pre-Jesus era to get them back to himself, that wouldn't be completely nonsensical. Since the Israelities already believed Yahweh was the one, true God, and that he would punish them if they sinned, then causing disasters in that context might have been a reasonable sign that God is angry.

But in our pluralistic world? No, that's complete hogwash. No one living in the Eastern world is going to think "Oh, an earthquake! That must mean that monotheistic God worshiped on the other side of the planet is angry." At best, it might draw them to their local, pantheistic religions. As I so often point out, people adopt the religion that is the closest them. It is no different when a disaster occurs. No one except those who are already Christians is going to think of the Christian God in this kind of situations.

There are far more reasonable ways for God to convince people that he is true God. Killings lots of people just...isn't one of them.

[MarcusOfLycia]

In case I wasn't clear (prolly wasn't), I didn't mean that God did this to get people's attention in Japan. I don't know why it happened, and probably never will.

I disagree though that just because someone lives in a different culture, though, that they'd be on an individual level restricted to turning to their 'local pantheistic religions'. I think what this stuff does for people is awaken their spiritual side. Anyone who actually listens to it will do more than revert to some previously held belief - they'll go out and really research and try to learn what they can. 9/11 in the US had the same effect: a lot of the people who went to church the Sunday after were atheists or agnostics - some their whole lives. However, the spiritual side had awakened as it often does when great loss occurs and it just so happened they were willing to listen long enough to go.

[secretfire6]

I don't mean to offend anyone, but honestly, I find the idea that an omnipotent and omniscient God would kill thousands of people just to "attract attention" to himself both stupid and evil. Stupid, because there are far more intelligent and potent ways for an omnipotent being to attract attention (who, exactly, except Christians is going to think of the Christian God when some random earthquake occurs? If the disaster's purpose was to get people's attention to the Christian God, then it failed miserably). Evil, for obvious reasons.

Before someone starts yelling at me, notice that I am not attacking Christianity per se here. There are numerous Christians who would agree with me on this. I'm addressing the particular idea laid out in this thread.

im with you buddy. its mind boggling that with all the growing frequency and intensity of the disasters flowing over the world that people are still either ignoring it all or digging deep into the scientific, physical cause. what's even more sad is that most of the folks with their heads in the sand are the "christians".

Because there are perfectly plausible natural explanations? Haven't we learned from the past that magical explanations have an extremely bad track record?

I think I've been misunderstood a little here. I'm not saying that the disasters that have been going on recently or the uprisings and revolutions are of the direct hand of God. I understand very well the mechanics of plate techtonics, sub oceanic quakes pushing tsunamis on land and rising sea temps spawing great hurricanes. I'm saying that the intensity and fequency of such things has increased peculiarly in the last 7 years of my life as compared to the first 20. The heads in the sand statement was a description of those who will turn towards the governments, scientists and engineers for the answers to "what caused this? how do we fix it and how can we prevent it in the future" Our lord has those answers. I'm sure there are church groups out there hollering about how these are God's judgments against those nations. I'm not so sure that's neccessarily true, but I know God is in control over the situation and he has given us, believers and non believers, everything we need to remedy and repair the situation in his glory. For prevention, well that's a bit out of our hands
So if the question was "did God do all this on purpose?" all i can say is I don't know, maybe. But for the question of "should we, as God's followers, be doing more in the aftermath?" I say it's a resounding YES. Speaking of that. if you are donating to any aid fund, make sure they are reputable and well known..like the red cross or through an existing set up. For example I did one through my paypal account. give it a try. every little bit helps.