Evidence for God from Science

Suppose you meet a stranger in a coffee shop, and they tell you that their cat, a real living biological feline animal, meows the Star-Spangled Banner, in perfect pitch, all by herself with no external assistance or guidance of any form, and only when nobody else is around except the person telling you this story. This person then solemnly affirms they are telling the literal truth about their pet cat.

What would be your immediate reaction to this allegedly serious and allegedly literal truth-claim and why was it your immediate reaction?

I guess I would "believe" the person, just to see where he is going with the story.
Maybe there is something else this person is trying to tell me. While I know in my mind that what he says is not possible, if I play along, he may tell me what he's actually trying to say.

phonenumberonanapkin wrote:Suppose you meet a stranger in a coffee shop, and they tell you that their cat, a real living biological feline animal, meows the Star-Spangled Banner, in perfect pitch, all by herself with no external assistance or guidance of any form, and only when nobody else is around except the person telling you this story. This person then solemnly affirms they are telling the literal truth about their pet cat.

What would be your immediate reaction to this allegedly serious and allegedly literal truth-claim and why was it your immediate reaction?

One word: Youtube.

phonenumberonanapkin wrote:Suppose you meet a stranger in a coffee shop, and they tell you that their cat, a real living biological feline animal, meows the Star-Spangled Banner, in perfect pitch, all by herself with no external assistance or guidance of any form, and only when nobody else is around except the person telling you this story. This person then solemnly affirms they are telling the literal truth about their pet cat.

What would be your immediate reaction to this allegedly serious and allegedly literal truth-claim and why was it your immediate reaction?

I once owned a black Persian Cat who actually knew and could say one word from that old Cat food commercial for Meow Mix!

Would that count?

More seriously, how can we tell if anyone speaks the truth?

Do trees really make noise when they fall alone deep within a forest when there is no human around to hear the tree fall?
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Obviously anyone with a brain would be not just highly suspicious of the claim, but of the person.

However Phone#, you obviously have some reason for this inquiry. And my honest assesment of your 'question,' (if one could call it that) is just as suspicious as I would be about a singing cat. It seems like a loaded question from an atheist. Perhaps trying to give some absurd scenario to show Christians how silly they are for believing what they believe. So, maybe for your first post on this forum, you could perhaps share with us your motives for asking such a question.

RickD wrote:I guess I would "believe" the person, just to see where he is going with the story.
Maybe there is something else this person is trying to tell me. While I know in my mind that what he says is not possible, if I play along, he may tell me what he's actually trying to say.

What was it about this truth-claim that made you speculate that perhaps this person is trying to tell you something else? If they had only said they walked to the store yesterday to purchase a loaf of bread, would you have speculated that perhaps there was something else they were trying to say?

Byblos wrote:

phonenumberonanapkin wrote:Suppose you meet a stranger in a coffee shop, and they tell you that their cat, a real living biological feline animal, meows the Star-Spangled Banner, in perfect pitch, all by herself with no external assistance or guidance of any form, and only when nobody else is around except the person telling you this story. This person then solemnly affirms they are telling the literal truth about their pet cat.

What would be your immediate reaction to this allegedly serious and allegedly literal truth-claim and why was it your immediate reaction?

One word: Youtube.

Suppose they don't want to supply hardcore proof, they simply want you to believe their testimony. Would you?

B. W. wrote:

phonenumberonanapkin wrote:Suppose you meet a stranger in a coffee shop, and they tell you that their cat, a real living biological feline animal, meows the Star-Spangled Banner, in perfect pitch, all by herself with no external assistance or guidance of any form, and only when nobody else is around except the person telling you this story. This person then solemnly affirms they are telling the literal truth about their pet cat.

What would be your immediate reaction to this allegedly serious and allegedly literal truth-claim and why was it your immediate reaction?

I once owned a black Persian Cat who actually knew and could say one word from that old Cat food commercial for Meow Mix!

Would that count?

More seriously, how can we tell if anyone speaks the truth?

Do trees really make noise when they fall alone deep within a forest when there is no human around to hear the tree fall?
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I beg to differ, the purpose of this thread is just a bit more useful than debating your question.

jlay wrote:Obviously anyone with a brain would be not just highly suspicious of the claim, but of the person.

However Phone#, you obviously have some reason for this inquiry. And my honest assesment of your 'question,' (if one could call it that) is just as suspicious as I would be about a singing cat. It seems like a loaded question from an atheist. Perhaps trying to give some absurd scenario to show Christians how silly they are for believing what they believe. So, maybe for your first post on this forum, you could perhaps share with us your motives for asking such a question.

Why would you be suspicious about a claim of a singing cat?

RickD wrote:I guess I would "believe" the person, just to see where he is going with the story.
Maybe there is something else this person is trying to tell me. While I know in my mind that what he says is not possible, if I play along, he may tell me what he's actually trying to say.

Why do you hold the position that a singing cat is not possible? Wouldn't you have to have omniscient knowledge of all cats in existence in order to confidently claim that none of them are capable of meowing the star-spangled banner?

Suppose 12 people made the same claim and over the course of time held to that position and of them, 11 when faced with the challenge of recanting their testimony chose instead to accept death rather than deny it. Would that impact your view of it?

Please take a moment to examine the Board's purpose and discussion guidelines. You were asked a reasonable question earlier as to your position and motives for starting a discussion and avoided the question. We're happy to have discussions with skeptics or persons of other postions. Our positions and motives are clear. It's not unreasonable to ask for the same courtesy from you.

Thanks!

bart

phonenumberonanapkin wrote:

RickD wrote:I guess I would "believe" the person, just to see where he is going with the story.
Maybe there is something else this person is trying to tell me. While I know in my mind that what he says is not possible, if I play along, he may tell me what he's actually trying to say.

What was it about this truth-claim that made you speculate that perhaps this person is trying to tell you something else? If they had only said they walked to the store yesterday to purchase a loaf of bread, would you have speculated that perhaps there was something else they were trying to say?

Sometimes people make an outrageous claim to see how the person he's speaking with will react. From the listener's expression or openness, he can see if the person is a good listener. This may help the speaker tell if he can speak openly about his real issue.

phonenumberonanapkin wrote:

RickD wrote:I guess I would "believe" the person, just to see where he is going with the story.
Maybe there is something else this person is trying to tell me. While I know in my mind that what he says is not possible, if I play along, he may tell me what he's actually trying to say.

Why do you hold the position that a singing cat is not possible? Wouldn't you have to have omniscient knowledge of all cats in existence in order to confidently claim that none of them are capable of meowing the star-spangled banner?

It's just my opinion that cats can't meow a tune. Although, I do remember a cat in a meow mix commercial meowing a tune. So, maybe cats are more intelligent then I believe.

Canuckster1127 wrote:Suppose 12 people made the same claim and over the course of time held to that position and of them, 11 when faced with the challenge of recanting their testimony chose instead to accept death rather than deny it. Would that impact your view of it?

Please take a moment to examine the Board's purpose and discussion guidelines. You were asked a reasonable question earlier as to your position and motives for starting a discussion and avoided the question. We're happy to have discussions with skeptics or persons of other postions. Our positions and motives are clear. It's not unreasonable to ask for the same courtesy from you.

Thanks!

bart

Fine. If anybody says they wouldn't believe the witness to the singing cat, I will ask why they believe the parts of the bible that mention a talking donkey and talking snake.

If anybody says yes, they would believe such a story, then I will ask them what criteria they think a truth-claim must fulfill to rationally justify remaining suspicious of it. If talking cats are no problem, is the sky the limit? Must we believe everything we hear whether it corresponds with our knowledge of the how the world works?

Unfortunately, because I didn't first reveal my motives, I caught several posters with their guards down: Several said they'd be suspicious of the singing cat story, without further commentary on why. Because I didn't reveal my motives earlier, they chose to answer the question without first putting their apologetic defense mechanisms on red alert. They actually came out and admitted that when a story describes certain realities in ways that we know from personal experience have never worked as described, THAT is rational justification to refuse to accept the story.

And you know where the argument goeth from there: If its ok to deny the truth of a signing cat story on the grounds that it contradict's one's personal experience of how cats work (in spite of the fact that God 'could have' made the cat sing), then skeptics are rational to deny the resurrection of Jesus on the grounds that it contradicts their personal experience of how long dead people stay dead after 2 days dead in the grave (in spite of the fact that God 'could have' made Jesus rise from the dead).

In other words, the reason you wouldn't believe the signing cat story is the same reason I deny the resurrection of Jesus, we both know the world doesn't work like that in our presence, so we are confident that it also doesn't work like that in our absence. This is merely a single argument, it is not the only reason I deny this Christian claim.

RickD wrote:

phonenumberonanapkin wrote:

RickD wrote:I guess I would "believe" the person, just to see where he is going with the story.
Maybe there is something else this person is trying to tell me. While I know in my mind that what he says is not possible, if I play along, he may tell me what he's actually trying to say.

What was it about this truth-claim that made you speculate that perhaps this person is trying to tell you something else? If they had only said they walked to the store yesterday to purchase a loaf of bread, would you have speculated that perhaps there was something else they were trying to say?

Sometimes people make an outrageous claim to see how the person he's speaking with will react. From the listener's expression or openness, he can see if the person is a good listener. This may help the speaker tell if he can speak openly about his real issue.

Fine, but that doesn't answer my question. The question to you was: What was it about this truth-claim that made you speculate that perhaps this person is trying to tell you something else? If they had only said they walked to the store yesterday to purchase a loaf of bread, would you have speculated that perhaps there was something else they were trying to say?