Evidence for God from Science

I saw a news story today about how religion is dying out in countries like Sweden, Canada, New Zealand, among others. Why would this trend be happening given that christianity can stand strong against the "science" that attempts to disprove it?

Depends on how you define "religion". Institutional churches are indeed dying. In Canada, it's close to the point that the Anglican Church may cease to exist within a generation. Spirituality (again a broad term) outside of institutionalism is on the rise. However, atheism is increasing in most western countries as well. Just a fact. Not all atheists however are the militant "new" atheists.

Did you say the story said religion is dying out? Or, did it say that true Christianity is having less believers than before? Man-made religions are as good as garbage.

In many nations, Christianity has experienced great growth and continues to do so. When Communism managed to gain full control of China around 1950, there were almost no Christians, and quite a few who were there were sent to prison, such as Watchman Nee. Now, there are an estimated 50 to 100million Christians in China (difficult to get numbers because most are house churches, there are 14 million registered in government controlled churches). That number is increasing. In Africa in 1900, there were an estimated 9 million Christians (not far from the Ethiopian population of 11 million at the time) while now they constitute roughly 40% of those in the African continent (around 400 million).

dorkmaster wrote:I saw a news story today about how religion is dying out in countries like Sweden, Canada, New Zealand, among others. Why would this trend be happening given that christianity can stand strong against the "science" that attempts to disprove it?

Yes it's this article..

Organized religion 'will be driven toward extinction' in 9 countries, experts predict.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/2 ... =allsearch

First of all what religion are they talking about since everyone is religious anyways.. Second, if they think it is Christianity they need to educate themselves on what the message of the gospel is.

Personally, I don't think atheism is as strong as it seems, but on the Internet - it's the definitely the most popular religion.

Online message boards are flooded with atheists - this week they put up a picture of the atheist "A" as profile pictures on Facebook, I can't open a single discussion without coming across with hateful scoffers and pseudoskeptics bashing Christianity, using fallacious and recycled 'arguments', and of course, misinformation. Seriously, don't those people have a life?

One thing I don't understand though: If they believe this life is all there is, then why do they waste it in such a pathetic way? Whether a person is an "enlightened atheist" or a "Bible-thumper", ultimately it will make no difference in the atheist worldview. Why bother?

It may be true that church attendance is down in western society, but I feel revival in my bones. More preachers are preaching the good news. As far as the rest of the world, people are being healed, raised from the dead, and the plan of salvation is being preached to the poor! PRASE GOD!

Reactionary wrote:Personally, I don't think atheism is as strong as it seems, but on the Internet - it's the definitely the most popular religion.

Online message boards are flooded with atheists - this week they put up a picture of the atheist "A" as profile pictures on Facebook, I can't open a single discussion without coming across with hateful scoffers and pseudoskeptics bashing Christianity, using fallacious and recycled 'arguments', and of course, misinformation. Seriously, don't those people have a life?

One thing I don't understand though: If they believe this life is all there is, then why do they waste it in such a pathetic way? Whether a person is an "enlightened atheist" or a "Bible-thumper", ultimately it will make no difference in the atheist worldview. Why bother?

Exactly my experience, to the letter.

One guy I know (only on Facebook) has his entire quotes, books, inspirations, hobbies, and activities set to atheist-related things. "Don't they have a life?" indeed. The worst of it is that he is extremely aggressive. It isn't that he simply believes something. He makes sure you know you are inferior (I and others have been told this) just because of your beliefs. I've decided henceforth that by even acknowledging him enough to disagree, I've given him more attention than he deserves in the realm of intelligence. Doesn't mean I shouldn't pray for him... but I don't think saying anything is going to help someone who defines their life by their hatred for everything you stand for in blind rage.

The western world seems to think that "the western world" is all there is. In African and Asian countries Christianity have been on a huge rise. European countries is another story, but some of those countries aren't doing so well population-wise either, growing Muslim populations as well.

Organized churches aren't doing well in Western countries, that's true... sometimes I don't feel as if that's a bad thing and maybe a purging process by God. I think that the "intellectual and philosophical revolution" among Christians that William Lane Craig and others often mention will take some time to effect the culture... but I feel it will effect the culture. I see "normal people" who aren't privy to the latest philosophical discussions and arguments fall for wordplay and false arguments that have by atheists that have, in fact, been answered long ago. It takes time for the great, relatively new arguments for Christianity to disseminate and actually effect the culture. There's already some good stuff out there, but I think there can be more to come.

But people have been predicting the death of religion for literally hundreds of years, and it hasn't happened and won't happen. I've read a few articles (wish I could find them) that suggest that spirituality is "on the table" in countries like France more so today than in the recent past. Even in the most secular countries, there is almost always a good percentage of theists... although one thing I have to remind myself is that it isn't "theist vs. atheist... a Muslim is equally lost, right? Even when you're talking atheists, there are a good number that are "quiet atheists" who may be more open to spirituality and discussion, it's the very vocal minority (the "new atheists") that are obsessed with Christianity. In secularized countries, I'm afraid that many people aren't necessarily vocal atheists, but haven't even considered serious questions about religion, spirituality, and Christianity.

Those are good points. The west isn't all there is and Christianity is growing most in the so-called 3rd world. Further the growth is moving outside the institution to more organic and simple church and I think that's positive.

Reactionary wrote:Personally, I don't think atheism is as strong as it seems, but on the Internet - it's the definitely the most popular religion.

I think the atheistic religion "claims" to have a scientific reason for it's belief system. The fact is when you study it, it fails miserably in almost all scientific categories.. It "might" be popular in other countries, but America won't fall to such nonsense..

MarcusOfLycia wrote:One guy I know (only on Facebook) has his entire quotes, books, inspirations, hobbies, and activities set to atheist-related things. "Don't they have a life?" indeed. The worst of it is that he is extremely aggressive. It isn't that he simply believes something. He makes sure you know you are inferior (I and others have been told this) just because of your beliefs. I've decided henceforth that by even acknowledging him enough to disagree, I've given him more attention than he deserves in the realm of intelligence. Doesn't mean I shouldn't pray for him... but I don't think saying anything is going to help someone who defines their life by their hatred for everything you stand for in blind rage.

I know exactly what you're talking about - on Facebook you can recognize an atheist from a mile off: His "Philosophy/Religion" section is visible to everyone, so we can all admire the fact that he is an enlightened atheist who reads the God Delusion and offers a collection of inspirational quotes that contradict themselves in their ignorance. They usually dwell on discussion boards where they insult Christians, and when someone replies to their insults, they play victims and accuse us for "intolerance against minorities" and similar bigotry.

Why are they so angry, that's an interesting psychological and sociological question. A rational person has no reason to hate something that supposedly doesn't exist. I don't believe in astrology, for instance, so I have no reason to hate horoscope and people who read it. I just ignore it. If you ask them why they hate Christianity, they usually resort to the inquisition, crusades and corruption within the Catholic church.

Gman wrote:I think the atheistic religion "claims" to have a scientific reason for it's belief system. The fact is when you study it, it fails miserably in almost all scientific categories.. It "might" be popular in other countries, but America won't fall to such nonsense..

I agree, it's a total failure. I hope America will keep fighting it - I hear that you Americans are doing a good job - because here in Europe Christianity is in decline, at least it seems so to me. My country used to be 90-95% Christian, nowadays you can't publicly say you're a Christian without getting strange looks. It's like, "Seriously... you don't really believe in all that God stuff, do you?" Not to mention the fact that the country is practically ruled by gay associations, which press charges against anyone who even remotely mentions something negative against homosexuality. To be honest, I feel that freedom of speech and religion is being jeopardized over here, minorities have started to terrorize the majority, and tragically, many of my fellow Christians haven't yet recognized that.

Same could be found on YouTube when it comes to religion. From what I've seen.

Its tough to say. It does seem that religion is least becoming far more subtle. And where it is not being subtle it is being pressured into doing so, at least in the west.

dorkmaster wrote:I saw a news story today about how religion is dying out in countries like Sweden, Canada, New Zealand, among others. Why would this trend be happening given that christianity can stand strong against the "science" that attempts to disprove it?

I don't think it's so much the case religion is dying in these countries as science is attempting to disprove it, more a move towards being very skeptical of anything science can't prove. A culture of doubt appearing in a culture of faith.

Taking the OP title in point - Has anyone also noticed that it is currently the New Athiest books that are currrently topping the best sellers lists - titles such as "God Delusion", "Grand Design", "God is not Great" etc.. I have to ask the question - why are people so hungry for books that bash Christianity and not for the Gospel? As that is the way it seems at the moment.

Silvertusk.