Evidence for God from Science

I am a teacher at Christian school. I got this student who suppose to be Christian but in fact he is an atheist, and he got all these questions about God. Since my knowledge is limited, I think I need help. Although I'm not sure after I answer his questions, he will be a real Christian since he is so stubborn and close-minded.

Here are some of his questions :

1. God Knows Your Sufferings:
Supposedly, God knows our suffering because he’s had them before; at least in Jesus’s form, not the entire Trinity (You know that the Trinity stuff was never said by God, right? It was started by Paul, so I’m not sure it’s real. Three in one sounds more like a coffee satchet).
In many cases: Epic and Total [nonsense].
Do you know about the Rwandan Genocide of ’98? More than eight hundred thousand people or more than ten percent of the country’s population is killed.
Previously, they were hunted. Shot at. Wounded. Desperate. Dying.
Do you know that many of the Rwandans escape and sought refuge inside churches? The pastors inside (Christians and Catholics, mind you) promised them safety. Want to know what happened next? The pastors, humans made in God’s image, secretly informed the genocidal army that a group of delectable targets has entered their churches. When a contingent of soldiers came close to the location, the Godly pastors (Catholics believed that a pastor is a representative from God himself. Heavenly delegates. Back-stabbing traitors, in this case) locked and barred the doors and windows. The soldiers opened the doors in leisure, say hi to the horrified occupants, and painted the walls red with their blood. Not just in one church, but in many others. Go, now, look it up.
The pastors preached the normal Sunday school later. “God, please forgive our sins..”
Real nice, right? And the genocide was also God-allowed. But he understands! He was forced to carry the cross, getting whipped and die horribly!
Right. Not. God suffered for only a day and a half. Not more.
You know what? Even I know a lot of people who has suffered all their lives (some for God… and then some were killed in his name) and die.
Actually, there’s no mention in the bible that Jesus has ever worked. Read it again.. carefully. Really carefully.
Some children during the genocide attempt woke up finding their mom and dad stabbed, mutilated, shot, and dead. Bloody hell. Or decapitated by the army’s knives, since bullets were a bit too expensive for the lowly people they were going to kill.
Jesus’s life is extravagant. He had many followers. Surely people everywhere would give him their best bed, most plates of food, than the local rulers. Point is, he didn’t know our suffering. He suffered for a day and a half, and that’s that (he got revived quickly, we don’t!).
Besides, he’s a God, for goodness sakes. He can take any kind of beatings possible. We are pathetic humans.

2. Religion Dilemma:
Imagine if this actually happened, alright.
You lived in the ages of World War II. Your family is enslaved by the Japanese at the worst times ever. Resistance is faltering everywhere. Many of your relatives died fighting, desperately trying to fend off invaders armed with rifles with sharpened bamboo poles.
Most of your countrymen are very poor. The Japanese reigned supreme, taking oil, food, and human resources at their leisure in order to fulfill their navy wars’ necessities in the Pacific. Many are killed, tortured, raped, and imprisoned unjustly.
One day, your parents were taken to jail because they defended a little girl from being whipped in the forced workers mine. They were scheduled for execution next week.
A day before the execution, Emperor Hirohito arrived in Indonesia for a short visit in order to boost morale in his army’s ranks.
Your grandfather had a long-range hunting rifle. He hid it in the house.
You took it, and you saw a chance to kill Hirohito himself.
- If you don’t kill him, you would allow the existance slavery and wars not just in Indonesia, but in the Philipines, Singapore, China, and the bloody wars in the Pacific. You can prevent the many deaths that follows Japanese rule, and your nation’s drastic loss of resources. In Japanese rule, sin exploded into massive growth like a cancer. Everywhere evil happens. Your entire family will die. Many goes to hell because of the despair the reign emanates.
- If you kill him, you alone go to hell.
So, will you kill or not? Seriously, WWII has claimed 70 million lives. Apparently God loved his children so much he wanted to be with them as soon as possible.
The big question is, will God be proud of you (for stopping so much sin he is supposed to loathe from happening, deaths and torture from occuring, plus your nation will be extremely proud of you and might nominate you a hero) or will he hate you like hell (for commiting a heroic act that saves thousands of lives. Hell; a lake of fire. So much for ever-forgiving)? According to the Bible, he will hate you like hell, and shall deem upon you eternal damnation! Hahahahahuhuhu.. it’s so sad I can’t laugh any more.

3. God show off by turning staffs into snakes and sending blood, frogs, lice, flies, and boils to punish people. And it’s not the Pharaoh’s fault, God hardened his heart 10 times. Talking about no choice.

4.Life expectations in the U.S, for example, is 77 years. And what do you get? You have 77 years to determine whether you repent to the right religion while being tossed along the hurricane of life, losing jobs and loved ones, getting stressed and mentally depressed as the world grew in competitivity, and there are dozens of religions to be chosen, since presumably only one is right every religion in the world tried to influence you and tries to convert you to its own religion.
How about in Afghanistan? Life expectancies are only 42 years. 42 years in the worst rat hole in the world, haunted by mujahideens, terrorist factions, drugs, lack of education and sources of religion.
We live far too short to be a bit wise. Why did Adam get 919 years to become wiser and some bloke in America died at thirty because of a God-allowed car crash? Adam had more than thirty times the time to get wiser and repent (not mentioning God did bunches of miracle during his life; how many miracles can happen to an American? I mean, unexplainable, just-happened miracles?) than the poor bloke.
It’s like God is a master, we are dogs (dumb and stupid). We (naturally) wanted the food that is delicious and nutritious for us to eat. God gave us two meals: Dog food, which is delicious and nutritious, and.. let’s say some weird food that tastes bad and we’ve never encountered it. We live in just about sixty years of life, maybe more, but that’s the average. Say we had an hour to choose which is which. God tries to tell us that if we eat the weird food we’ll get dog food for the rest of our lives. Of course, as dumb dogs, we had no idea what he’s talking about. If we didn’t choose the food God wants us to choose, he’ll throw us to the Butcher (a.k.a the Devil). How ‘fair and justified’ is that?

And so much more.
I got dizzy from all those questions.

Welcome to the board lanthean. May I ask what subject you teach?

He's got a lot of misconceptions and outright wrong information.

1. His first point is on the problem of suffering. To be honest, this is one of the things that used to bother me a lot but also one of the first things I realized was totally necessary as I started reading more about the Christian faith. Suppose God -had- stopped the killings. Suppose He -had- forced the Pastors not to do that. They would not have had free will. Without free will, we lose the whole point of Creation in the first place!

Here's another thing to look at: If someone wants to critique God's character, for the time-being, they to assume God exists temporarily to do so. Once we assume He exists, we have more implications than just our ability to critique Him. We also have to realize that eternity awaits. This lifetime is going to be full of suffering because this lifetime is a training ground. I believe it was CS Lewis who used the imagery of a hotel vs a prison. This student treats this life like it is God's Royal Hotel. We should live in luxury, we should have our needs attended, we should never be at risk, we should never die! A Christian looks at it like a prison or perhaps boot camp (I like the boot camp analogy better). You get food? Thank God! You get to sleep? Thank God! And we have all of these wonderful technological toys, all these games, all these sources of entertainment! Praise God!

The difference in mindset is very much profound I think. He makes another point about Jesus living a very well-off life, but He didn't. He was routinely driven from towns and forced to live in the wilderness. He might want to, as a start, read the Gospels.

2. This seems like a lot of silliness on his part just to get to the point, which I still don't quite understand. God doesn't 'send people to hell for killing people'. People suffer death (separation from God) for rejecting God. People live with God (have eternal -life-) for accepting Salvation. Would God be proud of someone who killed someone else to save lives? Well, I suppose that depends. Certainly, God has used a lot of different methods to accomplish His will, from Joshua leading the Israelites to military victories in the Old Testament, to Christ in the New Testament winning the ultimate battle by dying. Elijah in the OT, instead of fighting the prophets of baal relied on God and won a victory by simply obeying. God isn't proud of us because of what we do! He loves us! He just does. He has, in all things, love, justice, mercy, wrath, fury, compassion, and all sorts of things we can barely begin to understand in this lifetime. I feel that his first question was a serious and important one, but his second one is simply an attempt to insult, and is very ignorant. He, knowing as little as he does about God, can't really suddenly assign God attributes and plans of action and then question why God would do things that way. It is a classic straw man scenario.

3. It is Pharaoh's fault to a large degree - he had plenty of times to listen before. We always have a choice: God sometimes allows us to make it without intervention, and sometimes pushes us along. Reminds me of Joseph and his brothers. Also, "God hardened Pharaoh's heart" can be looked at a few different ways I think. Overall, I don't see how this is an issue though: God accomplished His purpose of having the Israelites leave Egypt. Was Pharaoh condemned afterward? Not at all! We don't know much about his life afterward, but there's no reason that immediately following it, his heart couldn't have melted and things couldn't have been right with God and himself. If God punishing Pharaoh's pride is hard for him to understand, it might be good to note that the Israelites were in bondage and suffering in a very rough type of slavery. Seems like God's love for us and our ability to make decisions won the day here.

4. "Seek and ye shall find" comes to mind. Life expectancy is irrelevant. A heart open to God's calling can acknowledge Him at four years old... I've seen it happen. He seems to have an image of God very common in atheist circles: God is a big bad judge who hates us and looks for ways to hurt us. That isn't the case! Its true that there are tons of religious movements out there, but Christianity's view on God is totally unique! He is loving, compassionate, and full of mercy! He isn't just a Judge but a Just Judge. I'm not a Calvinist, but I feel as though people are predestined even as they have free will. It is something I've never understood completely, but I think I have my mind around enough now that I accept a bit easier. We love God because He first loved us. Without God's calling our name, we can't hear Him! The fact is though, God loves the whole world. There is a calling we can choose to hear. My problem with the approach he (the student) has is that complaining about how hard it is doesn't do anything. A better response would be to spend the time that we have (which is always enough to accomplish what God desires) to pursue the Truth! When we find it and not some other form of self-worship or skepticism, we get closer and closer. I honestly believe the God of Christianity to be the only truly appealing religious belief system out there, although that is largely tied to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit I would presume. Maybe its more though... God loves us! That is an amazing thing!

Welcome to the board! Hope my rants have something in them for you

The evil we do to ourselves has NOTHING to do with God.

I would also like to know what subject you teach. I would also like to know the age of the student.
How did these questions come to you? Were these presented in the classroom setting? Privately?

I don't mean to sound suspicious or insensative, but I am a little curious how can a teacher in a Christian school is not equipped to answer, or research answering such questions? Perhaps it is unrelated to your subject matter. But even if it is unrelated to your subject, why do you feel compelled to turn to an internet discussion forum with people you do not know, and not someone within your staff? Surely a Christian school would be equipped with staff and resources to address such objections.

Board members. Do we really think we can just type in a few responses and expect this person, who has no history on this forum, to become an apologists overnight? Is that responsible, or wise? I'm not saying that we shouldn't be willing to offer guidance, but this just seems odd in more than one way.

If this is genuine. Ultimately, no matter what the scenario, the objections still boil down to the same ole things that have been objected for years.

How can God allow suffering?
How can Christianity be the only way?
What about people who never hear about God or Jesus?
Why would God send 'innocent' people to Hell?

The boards main page offers answers in all these areas. And we can direct you to more sources that go into depth on these matters.

Could be real or fake - guess you never know online. I know when I first heard similar objections I felt overwhelmed. Unfortunately, apologetics is not taught very much 'round here like it should be. Thought I'd respond with what I would if someone approached me with those same questions.

I'm sorry I am not familiar with the word apologetics. What is that means?

@Byblos and @jlay : I am teaching character building and I am a academic counselor.
My student just email me those questions. Some are edited, he sent me like 20 pages of questions. He is currently 13 this year (a very bright child). and surprisingly his father is a priest.

yea, I admit that I should find answers within my school. and although the questions seem hard to explain, it comes down to the main thing about how God allow suffering and stuff that already been answered in the main page. But I'm unable to see that until someone give me enlightenment, right? That's why I am asking help from the forum.
It is like using mathematical operations. although the are so many variances, all come down to subtraction, dividing, multiplying. we just need help to see it and which one to use and when, right.

And I am truly honest when I say, I don't have enough knowledge, I don't have deep understanding about Bible, I even don't consider myself as religious. Even though I am christian since I was a small children, I am just like a baby learning how to walk deepening my faith and knowledge.
And I can't say that is the school's fault accepting teacher like me, right.

People in my school are offering answers, but the more I got people to answer, I got more different perspective, right?
That's why I said in the beginning, I doubt that my student will accept common answer, and I said he is so stubborn and close-minded. He has listened to many many answers. in fact, everytime he met someone new, he ask them hoping somehow he got unique answer. so I think I am just helping him to get as many answer as I can. although, yea, it comes back to the main questions after all.

however, he keep citing one site in the internet where inside it, there are so many mentions about God cruelty (God ordered His apostles to kill, God cruel punishment and so on and so on). I think it is not appropriate to put the address of the site here, right. in that site, my student argues, the person that made that site studied bible thoroughly for 20 years, including studying about 4 other religion's bible.
He even said something like :
1. Genesis has got it all: sex, violence, contradictions, insults to women, absurdities, conflicts with science and history, you name it.. God declared his creation to be "very good" in 1:31, but I can't find anything good in Genesis
2. Only the God of the Bible does such things. And if you can still believe in him after reading Exodus, then your heart has been sufficiently hardened by him.
3. The moral of Numbers has to be: "Don't whine."
Miriam complains about Moses' Ethiopian wife, and God gives her leprosy. The people complain about their hardships during the Exodus, and God sends a fire to burn them alive. They complain about the food, so God forces them to eat quails until it comes out of their noses (and then sends a them a plague). They complain again, and God sends fiery serpents to bite and kill them. God can't stand a whiner.
But Numbers has a something for everyone. From talking donkeys to the law of jealousies. It's a fun book to read

Yea, I know probable it is useless or impossible to argue back at him. But I am still willing to try and I pray everyday someday he can soften his heart.
anyway,
one more objection by him :
"since bible is written by human, there must be tons of mistakes in it. esp since it is translated into so many languages and so many people. there are so many versions of bible. so why must we trust bible. even if it is written in quotations of what Jesus said, how is it that we can believe that is really the exactly the same as what He means originally."

I still can't believe he is still 13.

thanks anyway for all of the replies.

The problem with answering these types of questions to you and then have you regurgitate them back to him is that many things will get lost in translation. Would it be possible to invite the young lad to our site so we may address his concerns directly and one at a time?

I'm with you Byblos, I'd love to talk with the kid as well.

What you have here a classic case of elephant hurling. That is throw out so many objections that you overwhelm the one trying to answer. Obvious our new friend here is overwhelmed with this student.

The key here is to understand that we are not obligated to answer every question. Actually, not any question for that matter. What you need to do is analyze the situation. First, I would not attempt to answer any question that you don't know the answer to. Be honest. Say, I don't have that answer, but if you are interested I can help you find it. You can't win a person to Christ just by answering objections. We have to be able to narrow things down. All these objections are a symptom. Once one is answered another will fill its place.
You sound seriously interested in helping the kid, but you can't help someone who doesn't really want help. Based on how the objections are framed, this doesn't sound like someone actually concerned about getting answers. There are some things you can ask to find out.

You might ask this person. "You have a lot of objections. It would be difficult to address each one, but I'm willing to start, IF you are interested in sincerely considering the explanations. There is nothing wrong with objections. In fact each one you bring up is not new to the discussions. They have been asked for years. But, they have also been answered. Is your mind set on the matter, or are you interested in seeing how these objections are answered?
The best place to start is by determining what are your top three objections? And, give me a little background on how you arrived at them?"

You are going to find out if you have someone seeking answers, or an antagonist. If the later, then simply say, "there is no need for me to attempt to answer objections to someone who is an antagonist, and opposed to honest discussion. Christian apologists have answers regarding not only every objection you've posited but the ones you've probably not even heard of. If you decide you do want to have an honest dialogue, then please let me know."
One of your best bets is to meet a question with a question. The reason is that many antagonists haven't actually studied the matter for themselves. They pick up talking points from other sites. They place their faith in people who hate the bible.

Example:

1. Genesis has got it all: sex, violence, contradictions, insults to women, absurdities, conflicts with science and history, you name it.. God declared his creation to be "very good" in 1:31, but I can't find anything good in Genesis

I would say, "That is a very good observation. You are exactly right. Something happened between Gen 1:31 and what you observe later in the book. Murder, violence, etc. Have you investigated why God declared it good, and then things take a drastic turn and look anything but good? The bible explains why. But why do you think that is?

This forces them to examine there own objection to see if they really know what they are talking about. It is obvious that what happened after Gen 1:31 is the fall of man. In fact without the fall, there wouldn't be any bible to object to. There would be no need for a bible if the world was still 'good.'

Regarding the objection to science and history. One of the best things you can ask is this simple phrase, "What do you mean by that? What do you mean by, conflicts with science and history?

Thanks for the suggestion, jlay. Yes, he is an antagonist. His questions are not only about God, but almost everything in this world. About general rules and general world. He said that almost everything in this world , every rule is stupid. I even said to him it is useless to discuss things with others if all he does is attacking someone's opinion and explanations, even the most logical one. The main thing is, he thinks he is correct all the time and he is an antagonist. Although I never put it in the same words as yours.

For inviting him to this site, are you sure it is allowed? Since I read one of the rules of joining this site is definitely not someone like him. I would love to invite him to join this site.

Anyway, I sent him email like this : (hopefully, I was not mistaken for sending him email like this. I just want to make sure he is really really repent and an atheist).
Me :But I just keep wondering about some questions:
These whole arguments about God and religion/christianity, so what I want to know is :
If you are questioning God, about His kindness/evilness, about whether He can do this/that, about is He create evil/not, or whatsoever,
do you accept Jesus/God as your savior, as your God, or do you love Him?

Him :IF He existed (There is no evidence nor reason nor testimony nor tangible proof that he does) that means either....
A. We are doomed to hell (Since he has infinite wisdom and ours is finite, we can never be able to understand what he wants us to do, even through the Bible)
B. He ordered us to go to hell (Since he is omniscient he knows where we will end up in... heaven or hell)
Either way, it's a win win for him and a game over for us humans.

Me : or do you resent Him? or you don't believe He exist?

Him :I resent him? The very creator of a monstrous universe? Maker of Evil, Founder of sin (Oh, and please read the Bible again, at the New Testament. I've found 5 different verses mentioning that God created everything and nothing can exist without his approval!), Downfall of Man... and so on and so on...


Me :Nature can be very beautiful and amazing right. do you believe He created this nature?

Him :Very beautiful... right. Not. Black Holes... So beautiful.... So black... So much density and mess
Even He is very hard to understand (even impossible to understand), do you know that at least He has been nice/kind to you?

Me :Do you believe that your life, your intelligence, your health, your family, your family wealth, everything in your life specially the good one is blessing from Him? or all of those just natural process/luck/whatever else you want to call it.

Him :Cause and Effect.

Me :Do you pray? do you ever try to pray not for something to happen or for asking question, but praying just to say thank you for some beauty and amazing things in this world, praying to try feeling His presence, praying asking for peace and calmness.

Him :Amazing things... like the nuclear factory explosion (since something cannot happen without his approval, it is his fault. He knew it was coming)
Tsunamis... (Particularly the Indian Ocean one.... killed a few hundred thousand people. But of course, he's God, so he can do anything he wanted)


Me :No matter how you question Him, do you realize (if you believe He exist and He created this world and created you), that He is your creator, He is greater than you, He is far more powerful than you, He is much more intelligent than you. And however He seems cruel to you, you should be humble before Him.
Try it. Be humble when you talk to Him, rather than challenging and questioning Him.

Him :Indeed, in the beginning I was. But you forgot one very important factor. He does not respond to you, not through other people, not through miracles. You do know that miracles you read in articles are almost all exaggerated and is created to insinuate wonders for being one of the sect?

Me : Even if you have tons of questions, do you ever ask it politely and humbly rather than feeling that He can't answer your question?

Him : Here; it's either he can't or he won't. Isn't that right?

Me : You can act like that to other people, but to Him, no matter what He is still smarter than you.

Him : Well, you cannot judge a perspective with another. See, think about it. Read about it. There are some very cruel and brutal doings that God did in the Old Testament. Do you notice that God will carry out a punishment to a man's innocent family up to FOUR GENERATIONS just because of an offense? If he does that to his Chosen People, why on Earth do you think God can't / won't do that to you? The

Him : Here, I've found this extremely interesting verse in the Bible. Read Galatians 5, look at the ending verses.
"Oh, those agitators! I wish they would go all the way and emasculate themselves!"
Seems like holy Paul's having some temper issues...

Yea, I honestly want to help him.

This boy is soooo decievied it saddens me

"Him :IF He existed (There is no evidence nor reason nor testimony nor tangible proof that he does) that means either....
A. We are doomed to hell (Since he has infinite wisdom and ours is finite, we can never be able to understand what he wants us to do, even through the Bible)
B. He ordered us to go to hell (Since he is omniscient he knows where we will end up in... heaven or hell)
Either way, it's a win win for him and a game over for us humans."

3 words jesus spoke " Repent and believe"

He didnt order us to go to hell we chose to go there when we dont want anything to do with God thus all his divine attributes like love, happiness, brotherhood and everything that makes life meaningful are removed from the person's existence.

"Him :I resent him? The very creator of a monstrous universe? Maker of Evil, Founder of sin (Oh, and please read the Bible again, at the New Testament. I've found 5 different verses mentioning that God created everything and nothing can exist without his approval!), Downfall of Man... and so on and so on..."

I dont understand how the universe is monstrous :S LOL yes God is the creator of all things but sin is not something created but its the lack of love, brotherhood and all those things in ones state in life. God is the creator of all things but not the author of all things.

"Him :Indeed, in the beginning I was. But you forgot one very important factor. He does not respond to you, not through other people, not through miracles. You do know that miracles you read in articles are almost all exaggerated and is created to insinuate wonders for being one of the sect?"

I feel you should ask more about this .. i think you should get a background story on how he asked God or how long he waited for the answer.

He kind of reminds me of other atheists I know in one key sense: He seems to think he has Christianity fully figured out. The difference is that Christians (well... Christ-like Christians) tend to admit they don't have it all figured out even though it is their belief system.

That's something important to keep in mind, I think. At the very least, its important to see that he does think he has this all figured out. If you get him to start being skeptical of his information (as he should be; it isn't very accurate), there may be a fall out where he might start considering other ideas, which is good!

MarcusOfLycia wrote:That's something important to keep in mind, I think. At the very least, its important to see that he does think he has this all figured out. If you get him to start being skeptical of his information (as he should be; it isn't very accurate), there may be a fall out where he might start considering other ideas, which is good!

Ok, how am I going to do that? That is a very good idea. But I am honestly can't argue with him cause :
1. I am defeated by his logic
2. His logic is not common logic, it is his own logic

CeT-To wrote:I feel you should ask more about this .. i think you should get a background story on how he asked God or how long he waited for the answer.

Thanks, yea, I should ask more about this.

Thanks for the answers. Going to update about his reply soon

This kid isn't much different than I was, just more intensely deceived. I believed in God, I just didn't understand a lot of things, and had found some easy answers from skeptics. This created a lot of hostility within me towards His ways.

He says:

Him :I resent him? The very creator of a monstrous universe? Maker of Evil, Founder of sin (Oh, and please read the Bible again, at the New Testament. I've found 5 different verses mentioning that God created everything and nothing can exist without his approval!), Downfall of Man... and so on and so on...

My response would be. Let's cut through the diatribes. Do you believe in a creator God, yes or no?

Me o you pray? do you ever try to pray not for something to happen or for asking question, but praying just to say thank you for some beauty and amazing things in this world, praying to try feeling His presence, praying asking for peace and calmness.

I would not advise using this approach. Why? The bible says that God resist the proud. For him to do this, would mean he would first have to humble himself, and it is apparent that isn't going to happen. Finding God is not some experiment, "pray this prayer....." Imagine if someone came up to you, shaking their fist in your face, ridiculing you, mocking you, etc. How are you going to respond to them? Prayer is a beautiful gift, and we should be careful not to present it to the unbelieving as an experiment to see if God is real.

Regarding the Galatians 5. It is pretty obvious he has no idea of the context. This is a rebuke about returning to circumsion, and essentially Paul is playing on the situation. Yes, he is quite frustrated that the believers are trying to be led astray by Judaizers.

jlay wrote:Prayer is a beautiful gift, and we should be careful not to present it to the unbelieving as an experiment to see if God is real.

Yea, it was a dumb idea, thanks. I should more careful when challenging him on stuff.

I remember some of his false logic in some simple questions :
1. If God can create anything, can He create something He CAN'T lift? (If He can't create it, or can't lift it, then He is not able to create/do everything, then He is not almighty)
2. If God can create anything, can He create another GOD? (same logic as above).
He insisted on CAN/CAN'T. And he won't accept the answer "is not the matter of can/can't but why He should do something like that, is useless." And he won't accept the answer "your logic is false".