Evidence for God from Science

We know that both Mary and Joseph knew that Jesus' conception was a miracle at the hands of God. He did not have a human father.

Yet, in Luke 2:

41 Every year Jesus’ parents went to Jerusalem for the Festival of the Passover. 42 When he was twelve years old, they went up to the festival, according to the custom. 43 After the festival was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it. 44 Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends. 45 When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him. 46 After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. 47 Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers. 48 When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, “Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you.”

49 “Why were you searching for me?” he asked. “Didn’t you know I had to be in my Father’s house?”[f] 50 But they did not understand what he was saying to them.

51 Then he went down to Nazareth with them and was obedient to them. But his mother treasured all these things in her heart. 52 And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man.

What exactly do you think Mary and Joseph did not understand?

Thanks.

Perhaps you all don't understand what I am getting at.

I think there was a lot Joseph and Mary did not understand about Jesus.

What exactly did Joseph and Mary know about Jesus?

1. 31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”

From this report Mary knew Jesus would be Messiah, the son of God. Messiah and son of God being synonymous.

Psalm 2: 7 I will proclaim the LORD’s decree:

He said to me, “You are my son;
today I have become your father.
8 Ask me,
and I will make the nations your inheritance,
the ends of the earth your possession

2. They would have know that Mary was a virgin and Jesus' conception was an act of God.

Matthew 1:

21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus,[f] because he will save his people from their sins.”

They knew Jesus would save His people from their sins, but did they know how? No.

Did they know about the incarnation? No.

Jesus was 12 years old when they found Him in the Temple. They didn't fully understand His statement: “Didn’t you know I had to be in my Father’s house?”

It would not be unusual for a Jew to refer to the Temple as the Father's house. It would have been unusual for a Jew to refer to God as "my Father."

"But his mother treasured all these things in her heart."

I don't think Mary fully understood who Jesus really was until He rose from the dead.

I think it was probably normal to say the temple as Father's house but I think the writer of the Gospel intended to inject the reader with the idea that what Jesus' actions meant in their entirety was something that people around him did not understand until after his crucification.

neo-x wrote:I think it was probably normal to say the temple as Father's house but I think the writer of the Gospel intended to inject the reader with the idea that what Jesus' actions meant in their entirety was something that people around him did not understand until after his crucification.

Thank you.

“Didn’t you know I had to be in my Father’s house?

This is not a verse that is as easy as it appears. Especially when one goes to the original language.

“Why did you seek Me? Did you not know that I must be about My Father’s business?” New King James

As you can see, depending on which translation is used, someone could come to a much different understanding. When you start studying Greek lexicons, it becomes even more interesting. I can see why they didn't understand.
One thing is I haven't found a source to give solid reason to translate this, as father's house. The father part isn't the issue. That is clear. It is the word, "house." House is a common enough word, but the common word for house is not used here.
Now there is a can of worms I bet you didn't expect to open.

Although the part that may have caused them to not understand could relate to the question, "Why did you seek me? Did you not know..," which implies that they should have known. And obviously they left him behind.

LUKE 2:49,50 WHY DIDN'T JOSEPH AND MARY UNDERSTAND WHAT JESUS SAID ?
MARY WAS VISTED BY AN ANGEL BEFORE JESUS WAS BORN AND SHE WAS TOLD WHO JESUS WAS---- THE SON OF GOD
JOSEPH WAS VISTED BY AN ANGEL AND HE WAS TOLD WHO JESUS WAS BEFORE HE MARRIED MARY.
WHEN JESUS WAS BORN IN BETHLEHEM ANGELS APPPEARED TO THE SHEPHERDS THEY TOLD THEM WHO JESUS WAS. THE SHEPHERDS WENT TO BETHLEHEM AND THEY TOLD MARY AND JOSEPH WHAT THE ANGELS HAD TOLD THEM--THAT JESUS WAS THE CHRIST,THE SAVIOR.
THE MAGI WENT TO BETHLEHEM AND SPOKE WITH JOSEPH AND MARY EXPLAINING WHY THEY HAD COME.THEY WORSHIPPED JESUS AS THE MESSIAH/KING OF THE JEWS.
WHEN JOSEPH AND MARY WENT TO PRESENT JESUS AT THE TEMPLE ACCORDING TO THE LAW OF MOSES, A MAN NAMED SIMEON WHO WAS IN THE TEMPLE "FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT SPOKE TO JOSEPH AND MARY. HE IDENTIFIED JESUS AS THE MESSIAH, THE CHRIST. HE TOLD MARY WHAT WOULD HAPPEN.
DID JOSEPH AND MARY NOT BELIEVE ALL THESE SOURCES--WHO JESUS WAS? JOSEPH KNEW HE WAS NOT THE BIOLOGICAL FATHER OF JESUS. AS A JEW,A HEBREW, HE UNDERSTOOD THE TITLE OF FATHER GOD, ABBA FATHER. THE OLD TESTEMENT,THE TORAH,THE LAW WAS QUOTED BY JESUS DURING HIS MINISTRY SO JOSEPH AS A DEVOUT JEW, MUST HAVE BEEN FAMILIAR WITH THOSE TEACHINGS REGARDING THE MESSIAH,THE CHRIST AS WELL AS THE OTHER BOOKS KNOWN AS THE "PROPHETS" AND THE "WRITINGS". EVEN IF THEY,JOSEPH AND MARY, WERE NOT CONVIENCED THAT JESUS WAS THE MESSIAH OR DIDN'T KNOW HOW HE WOULD FULLFILL THAT ROLE THEY MUST HAVE KNOWN THAT HE WAS THE SON OF GOD---YAHWEH,ELOHIM,JEHOVA. SO WHEN HE SAID "MY FATHER'S HOUSE" OR "ABOUT MY FATHER'S BUSINESS" THEY KNEW HE DIDN'T MEAN JOSEPH OR CARPENTRY.

SAN SALVADOR wrote:LUKE 2:49,50 WHY DIDN'T JOSEPH AND MARY UNDERSTAND WHAT JESUS SAID ?

They didn't understand because they were worried sick, angry and relieved all at the same time! They had been on the road home for three days before realizing that their son was nowhere around them, so they hurried back to Jerusalem.

Put yourself in their shoes and you'll understand. They probably just wanted to wack him over the head after his answer.

FL

I don't think that Mary and Joesph TRULY understand that Jesus was THE son of God not just "a" son of God.
Luke wrote based on what he was told and the info he had, I don't think he asked Mary personally but was probably going on what Mary had told someone else,
EX:
Lets say it was John who asked Mary:
How was it being Jesus's mom ?
Mary then relates that episode and explains to John that they really didn't understand what He meant when He said that, they didn't truly grasp the significance that he was THE Son of God, the word of God incarnate.
John then relates to Luke that while Jesus said those things, Mary and Joesph didn't really understand at that time, the true significance of what he had said.

PaulSacramento wrote:I don't think that Mary and Joesph TRULY understand that Jesus was THE son of God not just "a" son of God.

Huh? Then how do you explain Luke 1:29-45? Apparently, Mary understood what was going on at first, during her pregnancy. Ditto for Joseph; this is attested by Matthew 1:18-21, not to mention Mt 2:13-16. Don't forget the visit of the Magi! This must have been a odd sight for the young family, to have strange men arrive from who-knows-where and profering bizarre gifts.

I think Mary and Joseph remembered who Jesus was. (His birth and the events surrounding it were so unusual, how could they forget?) Their apparent inability to understand Jesus' answer in Luke 2:49-50 has more to do with parental anxiety (see Lk 49:48) than anything relating to religious mumbo jumbo.

FL

Spoken like a true French Canadian, FL.

RickD wrote:Spoken like a true French Canadian, FL.

Oui!

FL

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:I don't think that Mary and Joesph TRULY understand that Jesus was THE son of God not just "a" son of God.

Huh? Then how do you explain Luke 1:29-45? Apparently, Mary understood what was going on at first, during her pregnancy. Ditto for Joseph; this is attested by Matthew 1:18-21, not to mention Mt 2:13-16. Don't forget the visit of the Magi! This must have been a odd sight for the young family, to have strange men arrive from who-knows-where and profering bizarre gifts.

I think Mary and Joseph remembered who Jesus was. (His birth and the events surrounding it were so unusual, how could they forget?) Their apparent inability to understand Jesus' answer in Luke 2:49-50 has more to do with parental anxiety (see Lk 49:48) than anything relating to religious mumbo jumbo.

FL

Why must it be a case of either/or? and not a combination of both?
Since no one here was inside their head or Luke's or who told this to Luke, all we can do is speculate which means we do NOT know for certain.
As for "religious mumbo jumbo", not sure if I care for your tone...
Luke 49:48 ??? Luke only has 24 chapters...

PaulSacramento wrote:Why must it be a case of either/or? and not a combination of both?
Since no one here was inside their head or Luke's or who told this to Luke, all we can do is speculate which means we do NOT know for certain.
As for "religious mumbo jumbo", not sure if I care for your tone...
Luke 49:48 ??? Luke only has 24 chapters...

-I guess it could be a combination of both. In any event, it is of no importance.
-mumbo jumbo: a term I use to describe religious fanciful thinking while ignoring what is plainly written. The politically correct term would be ''spiritualizing'' - or reading into - the text.
-Luke 49:48 was an error. I meant Lk 2:48, where Mary plainly says she and Joseph were anxious. Anxiety plays with your head and you end up doing stupid things and not understanding - or misinterpreting - what is going on around you. Think about this: Mary and Joseph had just spent 4 days looking for their son. Do you think they were calm and level-headed through it all?

So, as for Lk 2:49-50, the plainest meaning is the most likely. This is the KISS principle: Keep It Simple, Stupid.

FL