Evidence for God from Science

Is there any bigger breeding ground for hatred of religion? I always feel obligated to read the comments, and almost always, 90% of the comments are atheists saying Christians are wrong and stupid and everything else. Does anybody ever get discouraged by this?

Yeah I notice it too, not only that, they never seem to show WHY we are stupid. You would think most of them would be able to type in a few one liner arguments like "the problem of evil" or "psuedogenes as proof for evolution" since there are enough character space to allow for it. To me they just live like "useful idiots" for the totalitarian atheist elite.

dorkmaster wrote:Is there any bigger breeding ground for hatred of religion? I always feel obligated to read the comments, and almost always, 90% of the comments are atheists saying Christians are wrong and stupid and everything else. Does anybody ever get discouraged by this?

Well we are not too happy about the atheists religion either. Their religion is based on faith and has destroyed many peoples lives.

I agree Gman, how can any sane person happily accept the existential implications of naturalism and or atheism? I just don't see how. And I've asked many of them over the past few years how they cope with the implications and all I get are cheap answers like "just live for the moment" or "make up your own meaning". I've even had one tell me try LSD. But the fact that so many of today's "new atheists" happily talk about being "freed from God" is just so psychopathicly odd and disturbing to me. I'm sure you agree.

DRDS wrote:I agree Gman, how can any sane person happily accept the existential implications of naturalism and or atheism? I just don't see how. And I've asked many of them over the past few years how they cope with the implications and all I get are cheap answers like "just live for the moment" or "make up your own meaning". I've even had one tell me try LSD. But the fact that so many of today's "new atheists" happily talk about being "freed from God" is just so psychopathicly odd and disturbing to me. I'm sure you agree.

Yea. I don't understand how someone can argue so hard and hatefully for something like that

I love Youtube, so your post struck a chord with me. As for Youtube being a breeding ground for hatred, I think censoring people with opposing or negative beliefs or thoughts would be far worse. I feel the free exchange of ideas, information, and entertainment is more of a good thing than a bad thing, especially if you are a mature individual. And this free exchange of information will only quicken people to be coming so. Yes, Youtube comments reveal what some very sad individuals are truly thinking, but in the process these individuals reveal themselves for what their belief system makes them out to be. Surely a rational being would come to see their disrespect and depravity as non-virtuous states of character.

I look at this from a different angle. Youtube (and the internet in general) seems to be a breeding ground for ignorance more often than knowledge. One of the explanations that comes to mind is the anonymity that occurs - no one is responsible to say intelligent things and so what tends to happen is just 'flame war' after 'flame war'.

Another issue is that people stop thinking and start quoting. This happens a ton! One guy I know never even says what he thinks; he just quotes youtube, wikipedia, or google search results. This contributes to people not actually processing data but just regurgitating it.

One contribution that is both positive and negative is the fact that everyone can have a platform. The positive side is obvious: people can't get shut down for saying things people don't like. The negative is also obvious: plenty of people shouldn't feel compelled to say what they say in the first place.

Youtube happens to be one of the worst forum interfaces on the planet - a mediocre comment system. Youtube's videos don't have any level of scholarship or fact-checking, so a lot of people say a lot of misleading things with no repricutions (and since you can turn off comments, no one can point out such things). Another problem manifests when a video only appeals to a certain audience - it can be guaranteed high/low ratings regardless of content.

Hi Josh,

Flame wars are only relevant if good people choose to participate. So unless we are addressing the issue that people behave worse on Youtube than they would in real life, why should we care for the unintelligent remarks of misguided people in the comment section? True, the comment section can be turned off, but you can still visit their channel and comment there.

Are we discussing Youtube or the Internet? I would think a computer science major would be pro-internet, but you know what they say about assuming…

Concerning the Internet in general: I find it alarming the amount of information people choose to reveal about themselves. It can be quite destructive when it comes to getting a job or bullying another individual. There is no longer respect for privacy I think. And the idea of anonymity is a little misguided, because Internet users leave a traceable path.

It's sad, but I don’t think the people quoting these unreliable sources would become any more credible if these sources no longer existed; it’s just a human nature thing. The easily retrievable information is usually the least credible. They would find another source or listen to their friends or worse watch television. You want to talk about a source of unreliable information… At least the people on the internet are seeking out this material whether skewed or not – the practice in general is far healthier than being spoon-fed information at all hours of the day.

L

Modern means of communication have both pros and cons. While they allow knowledge to be shared more quickly and efficiently, this also creates many opportunities for misinformation to be spread. Plus, the media is also prone to manipulation, as certain sources may emphasize certain topics and events over others, therefore giving them more importance. For instance, a big hype is created when new "evidence" for evolution is found. Their attention is incredibly lower when that "evidence" is refuted. Consider a recent example - When "life" was found in a meteorite a few months ago, the news were eagerly published in the headlines, yet the rebuttal was hidden somewhere beneath the paragraphs a while later.

Online "commenting" is even worse. Forums like this one are good because you have the necessary time and space to throughly respond in debates. However, the way in which responding works on YT and FB (limited number of characters) gives the advantage to spammers and trolls, rather than the individuals who possess arguments to support their opinion. The debate is usually "won" by the camp that is stronger in numbers and aggression, not arguments. Atheists usually excel in this type of "debate".

luke-10 wrote:Hi Josh,

Flame wars are only relevant if good people choose to participate. So unless we are addressing the issue that people behave worse on Youtube than they would in real life, why should we care for the unintelligent remarks of misguided people in the comment section? True, the comment section can be turned off, but you can still visit their channel and comment there.

Are we discussing Youtube or the Internet? I would think a computer science major would be pro-internet, but you know what they say about assuming…

Concerning the Internet in general: I find it alarming the amount of information people choose to reveal about themselves. It can be quite destructive when it comes to getting a job or bullying another individual. There is no longer respect for privacy I think. And the idea of anonymity is a little misguided, because Internet users leave a traceable path.

It's sad, but I don’t think the people quoting these unreliable sources would become any more credible if these sources no longer existed; it’s just a human nature thing. The easily retrievable information is usually the least credible. They would find another source or listen to their friends or worse watch television. You want to talk about a source of unreliable information… At least the people on the internet are seeking out this material whether skewed or not – the practice in general is far healthier than being spoon-fed information at all hours of the day.

L

I'm not anti-internet (I was talking about the Youtube comment section in particular). What I am against is the way it can (and often does) amplify ignorance. I'm also against its use for illegal activities - and then the response that typically happens as well where people cry about their 'rights' and 'privacy' being stomped on by 'big evil companies' (even though they are often not) who sue them for stealing their software or other information.

Its a little off-topic... but as a CS major (and SW Engineer) I'm seeing the best and worst of the industry - and unfortunately the intelligence that caused it to exist in the first place (there were some tremendously smart people, to be honest), is quickly shifting to people who don't have a clue about ethics. I'm a big fan of computers helping people and not such a big fan of computers replacing people. Like I said, off-topic, but that's my position on it.

We may just have to agree to disagree, which is fine, but my position is that it would be better not to actively pursue any information than to actively pursue misinformation. On the one hand you have naivety, whereas on the other hand the result is foaming-at-the-mouth ignorance and rage (at worst) or a head full of lies (at best). Best, clearly, would be to pursue Truth. Believe it or not, I don't believe the internet as a whole (as of yet), is the best means to engage in this search.

I realize I didn’t address what is good about Youtube, besides the obvious sharing of ideas and community forming interactions, however slanted and unfairly presented. First and foremost Youtube is a great place to exhibit creative works, i.e. music, art, comedic talent, abilities in animation. Also, it is a great place to go for a refresher on a math lesson or how to fix a flat tire, all sorts of great everyday useful information can be found on Youtube. But I see how Youtube as a whole could be considered counter-productive in delivering the message of God. Though I don’t know if it always has to be that way. It would be great if someone or group who has inspirational abilities could reach out through Youtube. The fact is, they can and some talented people do, because I watch their videos.

We were addressing the poor comment interface of Youtube earlier. But there is one powerful and often overlooked feature of Youtube and that is the ability to make a video response. How cool is it that you can fight fire with fire? A video response has the potential to receive almost as much attention as the original video. Often times this is what people who want more notoriety do to get bigger on Youtube.

90% of youtube comments are ignorant, so if 90% of the comments are from atheists........

i dont go on youtube much
the thing is it takes very little to start a religious war on youtube
and when it starts it is huge it ALWAYS ends in a bunch of atheists yelling and cursing

Gman wrote: Well we are not too happy about the atheists religion either. Their religion is based on faith and has destroyed many peoples lives.

Could you elaborate on this?

luke-10 wrote:I love Youtube, so your post struck a chord with me. As for Youtube being a breeding ground for hatred, I think censoring people with opposing or negative beliefs or thoughts would be far worse. I feel the free exchange of ideas, information, and entertainment is more of a good thing than a bad thing, especially if you are a mature individual. And this free exchange of information will only quicken people to be coming so. Yes, Youtube comments reveal what some very sad individuals are truly thinking, but in the process these individuals reveal themselves for what their belief system makes them out to be. Surely a rational being would come to see their disrespect and depravity as non-virtuous states of character.

I agree with you on this one. I think the question is, WHY are the comments 90% atheistic?

Religion has been sustained at least in part by suppressing the alternatives, whether that be other religions or atheism. Nowadays, anyone with a reasonably unrestricted internet connection can find all manner of viewpoint and philosophy at their fingertips. Where vasts amounts of information is freely dispersed, it seems like religion declines. The internet is a highly atheistic community.

Also, you guys are focusing on just one side. True, some atheist comments are ignorant and hateful, but many of them are kind and thought provoking. The same can be said for many comments made by theists.



I would try to avoid taking a group of atheists you see on YouTube and applying a blanket statement like that. Obviously not all theists are violent fundamentalists, just as not all atheists are ignorant and angry. My favorite "atheist YouTubers" are people like AronRa and Thunderf00t. If you can get past some of the "poking fun at theists" comments, they make excellent points and their videos are well worth watching.
//www.youtube.com/user/aronra?feature=results_main
//www.youtube.com/user/Thunderf00t?ob=0

Pierson5 wrote:Gman wrote:
Well we are not too happy about the atheists religion either. Their religion is based on faith and has destroyed many peoples lives.


Could you elaborate on this?

I can elaborate a little. Since this is a Youtube thread, watch the following lecture on Youtube by Oxford mathematics professor John Lennox regarding faith.

Is Faith Delusional?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp1W_3ddaJI