Evidence for God from Science

Well, recently i have been thinking, and it this thought occured to me.
Why would god not create an actual belief in himself until a couple thousands of years after he created man. Like, the greeks , romans, persians, all were paganist, and honestly i have never heard of monotheism during the time periods of these civilizations.

Perhaps I am missing something in my history?
An explanation or clarification of this would be greatly appriciated.

Murray wrote:Well, recently i have been thinking, and it this thought occured to me.
Why would god not create an actual belief in himself until a couple thousands of years after he created man. Like, the greeks , romans, persians, all were paganist, and honestly i have never heard of monotheism during the time periods of these civilizations.

Perhaps I am missing something in my history?
An explanation or clarification of this would be greatly appriciated.

Called the fading memory of mankind...
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Wilhelm Schmidt has evidence that many tribal societies used to have beliefs similar to monotheism.

Creation Ministries International has an article on this: http://creation.com/wilhelm-schmidt-and ... f-religion

Creationism.org provides an argument as well, though not as strong: http://www.creationism.org/csshs/v07n2p18.htm

CreationWiki has an article on this also: http://creationwiki.org/Monotheism#Was_ ... eligion.3F

Basically, there's evidence of a Great Spirit in many Native American mythologies, a form of monotheism in China, some African tribes, Australian Aboriginals, etc.

The secular version of the history of religion is an evolution from fetishism/divination/magic, followed by animism/shamanism/pantheism, followed by polytheism, followed by monotheism. E.B. Tylor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Burnett_Tylor) is one of the first to advocate this view. Another early one was Auguste Comte (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auguste_Comte), founder of the study of sociology. Both were into evolution, which is a bias obviously when collecting data and fitting it into a certain paradigm.

An argument I would give is that originally humans were monotheistic if we were created by God. Gradually, we degenerated into worship of false gods and spiritual systems as I described above, and this was before the Flood. Noah and his sons would have preserved monotheism for some time afterwards, and then again we degenerated quickly to the worship of other gods. Then God chose Abraham to being the process of redeeming mankind via Israel, which was needed to bring Christ. God didn't "create" a belief in monotheism until a couple thousand years after creation. It already existed, just not in great numbers.

-Vlad

There has always been monotheism as there has been polytheism. There is no direct record to ascertain to what degree these ideas reach back in time but I do know this, there have been people of God in every generation. God has his witnesses, we may not know about them but I personally believe that there are always.

I believe in it's initial incarnation, society was purely monotheistic. There was one God. We believers in Christ know that there is only one God. We also know that polytheistic gods are created gods, which we call idols.

Since the Bible has a great deal to say not only about worshipping the one true God but mentions many other deities and puts such emphasis on monotheistic worship, hence the first commandment, does the Bible actually say where or when the worship of polytheistic gods began? I believe it does.

Genesis 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: (KJV)

As can be seen in this verse, Abel worshipped God. He was the first human to do this. He was a monotheist; Abel worshipped the LORD his God. Abel brought his sacrifice of his firstfruits by faith. The LORD respected what Abel did. Cain also worshipped God, but he never meant it from the heart like his brother.

Moving to the end of Genesis chapter 4, there is a movement away from monotheism to paganism and polytheism.

Genesis 4:26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.

If you notice the last part of the verse, 'then men began to call upon the name of the LORD', is somewhat misleading in the English language. It has been interpreted by some to claim that worship of Yahaveh began at this time. According to E W Bullinger's notes in the Companion Bible, the last part of this verse should read, "began to call upon [their gods] by the name of Yahaveh" or "began profanely to call upon the name of the LORD". Bulllinger renders this particular wording of interpretation based on the Massoretic text.

They did not begin to worship God at this time for Abel had previously begun that. Instead they not only began to call things "God" but began to swear the name of the LORD. If you want to know where false religion and swearing our Lord's name entered into the picture, this verse, Gen 4:26 lets you know that.

As you notice, Seth's son is called Enos. Smith's Bible Dictionary translates Enos to mean 'mortal man'. Bullinger claims it means 'incurable'. Though he is the son of Seth, the grandson of Adam, he is included in this chapter because he went the way of Cain. Bullinger adds some good commentaries including that they stopped praying to the Lord at this time and became morally depraved. Enos was the first pagan/polytheist.

Their idols, the sun and stars being worshipped, and whatever else they bowed to, the sea, the trees, etc, became their god that they called "Yahaveh". The name "Yahaveh" became a generic form for whatever they wanted to worship, and not the "one true God, the creator of all things in Heaven and on earth". Hinduism is a very good example of this.

The ancient Jewish Prophets and writers supplied the description of the form "their gods".The "Targum of Onkel" explains it: "Then in his, (Enos), days, the sons of men desisted from praying in the name of the Lord."

In "The Commentary on the Mishna", a part of the Talmud, A.D. 1168; in the treatise on idolatry, the most probable account of the origin of idolatry in the days of Enos is mentioned. "The name `Enos' reflects his sickened condition in mind as in his spiritual condition."

I will explain the terms Polytheism and Paganism. They are similar but different.

Paganism: Paganism describes religions that believe in the holiness of all things around them, rocks, trees, animals,clouds etc. Pagans believe in multitudes of gods, that the gods are all around them, causing the sunset, the rising of bread and success in the hunt to name a few. A Pagan seeks to remain in harmony with the natural world. Pagans don't look to appease a distant deity or heirarchy or deities who control their destiny. To a Pagan, the gods are all around him or her in plain sight every day.

Polytheism: Polytheism is the belief that the world and enviornment is ruled or controlled by a number of different gods or divinities. Many ancient religions were polytheistic, notably those of the Egyptians, the Greeks, the Norse and Romans. Often polytheistic religions have different gods for each force of nature and earthly phenomenon, for example a sun god, a moon god, a god of thunder, a god of forests, of rain etc.

Murray wrote:Well, recently i have been thinking, and it this thought occured to me.
Why would god not create an actual belief in himself until a couple thousands of years after he created man. Like, the greeks , romans, persians, all were paganist, and honestly i have never heard of monotheism during the time periods of these civilizations.

The Romans came to power not long before Christ was born in Jerusalem, a time when Judaism was established almost in its entirety, perhaps just short of a few latter prophets, and remained in power until well after the death of Christ.

The early Greeks and the Persians were around the same time, a few hundred years before the very beginnings of the Romans. This was, I dunno, around the 1200's BC and before, just around 200 years before King David was reigning, and certainly God was accepted in this time by early Hebrews. Not very good with history, but they may have even been in Palestine by this time. The Greeks remained in power until the lower hundreds B.C., when the Romans came to power over the Mediterranean.

Of course, biblical history goes back further than this, to a time during the existence of ancient Mesopotamian civilizations, the earliest "civilizations" of food-producers on earth. The earliest hunter-gatherer humans existed before this, sure, but biblical history (I.E. Adam and Eve, Noah, Abraham and their descendants) were around at the time of the very first civilizations. And perhaps before. You have a good point, perhaps God did create Man, but didn't endow him with a knowledge of God until later. But I personally believe that the creation of a true spirit and knowledge of God occurred at the same time, or around the same time.

As far as I recall, the Egyptians invented monotheism for a brief period when a pharoh (who I can't recall his name but the Egyptians grew to hate him) declared that the sun god was the only god. I still think they were off base for worshiping a material thing but some credit for a major culture investing in monotheism should be giving. It took the jews to announce that the one true god was a spirtual being, they hit the mark.

Not sure if it was the egyptians But i do remember learning in class that there was this one pharoah that did try to wipe out all the other gods temples and have only the one Sun god Ra ( i think it was Ra). He was Much hated by the egyptians because of it.

kevdog19 wrote:As far as I recall, the Egyptians invented monotheism for a brief period when a pharoh (who I can't recall his name but the Egyptians grew to hate him) declared that the sun god was the only god. I still think they were off base for worshiping a material thing but some credit for a major culture investing in monotheism should be giving. It took the jews to announce that the one true god was a spirtual being, they hit the mark.

Again, people readingthis forum need to know who you are Kevin and whatever quest - test - you are on...

kevdog19 wrote:Hello, my name is Kevin, I'm a practicing theistic satanist. Don't be misled, I love Christianity and Christians and next to my faith I think it is the best one and a very positive influence on the earth. It is simply my experiences that have led me to my faith. I hope to learn alot here and have some interesting debate.

And people reading this forum do need to know what you believe Kevin and represent...

Quoted from wikipedia:

Theistic Satanism, also known as Traditional Satanism, Spiritual Satanism or Devil Worship, is a form of Satanism with the primary belief that Satan is an actual deity or force to revere or worship.[ Other characteristics of Theistic Satanism may include a belief in magic, which is manipulated through ritual, although that is not a defining criterion, and theistic Satanists may focus solely on devotion. Unlike the LaVeyan Satanism founded by Anton LaVey in the 1960s, Theistic Satanism is theistic as opposed to atheistic, believing that Satan (Hebrew: הַשָׂטָן ha-Satan, "the accuser") is a real being rather than a symbol of individualism...

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I think he just accepts satan as a being, I do not believe that he actually worships him.

kmr wrote:

Murray wrote:Well, recently i have been thinking, and it this thought occured to me.
Why would god not create an actual belief in himself until a couple thousands of years after he created man. Like, the greeks , romans, persians, all were paganist, and honestly i have never heard of monotheism during the time periods of these civilizations.

The Romans came to power not long before Christ was born in Jerusalem, a time when Judaism was established almost in its entirety, perhaps just short of a few latter prophets, and remained in power until well after the death of Christ.

The early Greeks and the Persians were around the same time, a few hundred years before the very beginnings of the Romans. This was, I dunno, around the 1200's BC and before, just around 200 years before King David was reigning, and certainly God was accepted in this time by early Hebrews. Not very good with history, but they may have even been in Palestine by this time. The Greeks remained in power until the lower hundreds B.C., when the Romans came to power over the Mediterranean.

Of course, biblical history goes back further than this, to a time during the existence of ancient Mesopotamian civilizations, the earliest "civilizations" of food-producers on earth. The earliest hunter-gatherer humans existed before this, sure, but biblical history (I.E. Adam and Eve, Noah, Abraham and their descendants) were around at the time of the very first civilizations. And perhaps before. You have a good point, perhaps God did create Man, but didn't endow him with a knowledge of God until later. But I personally believe that the creation of a true spirit and knowledge of God occurred at the same time, or around the same time.

But why did he not "hard-wire" it, persay ,into our brains. It seems like millions of others have a attraction to other false gods

Because Satan is the great deceiver and he appears as a bright shining light.