Evidence for God from Science

Guys,

I was just thinking. When it comes to prophecy.. We as believers should be very very careful when we talk about such matters. As example saying what the number 666 is or the mark of the beast. Not that we should be forever questioning such things either but to spot weld arguments and say what things are or aren't is just well, simply not wise. That's not saying we can't identify things either such as we know the anti-Christ will be a man who opposes Israel and Christ in the end. Things will be revealed as more revelation is completed therefore we should be consider some things as a "possibility." Things such as the mark being a computer chip or a head scarf of a Muslim follower. They both could be possibilities and both could be wrong too..

Thoughts?

Hi G.

Well from what I understand about prophecy there are a number of ways of looking at it. We can say that a particular prophecy is not known and cannot be known until some time in the future in which case we might as well close the book of Revelation. We can say that there are those who believe what a prophecy is and spend a lot of time convincing others that what they believe is true, when they are completely wrong. We can also say that there are those who completely understand a prophecy and yet no one listens to them. There are also others which understand a prophecy and are joined by members of the Body of Christ in accepting a prophecy to be either true or fully revealed or both.

From the title Revelation, which means the unveiling, it seems to me that God wanted to interpret prophecy to us, instead of individuals attempting to interpret prophecy. It is not something that can be shaped according to the preferences of individual hearers. The message of scripture is not unique to every individual. We also know that the Bible is a book of words. The seperate words therefore which make up an individual prophecy, must just be as important as the prophecy as a whole.

Here's an example:

Isa 7:14 (KJV) Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Matt 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Luke 1:26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

27To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

22Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

So the intial prophecy in Isaiah is straightforward. It is a literal prophecy. God said a virgin would conceive and that is exactly what happened. Christians believe that this is a true prophecy, one that has been fully revealed.

When we take a prophecy for example, the ram and the goat prophecy in Daniel 8, it has two meanings. One is the literal sense. The other future. There is a timeline in that prophecy which many overlook, spoken by the angel and not man:

Dan 8:17 (KJV) So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: FOR AT THE TIME OF THE END SHALL BE THE VISION.

Dan 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

The angel gives him a double witness in this case, emphasizing that this prophecy is to happen in the future. Then the angel tells Daniel:

Dan 8:26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.

Daniel considered wisest of the prophets, tries to understand this prophecy but couldn't? Why? Because the knowledge of the prophecy was not given to him to understand. I think Daniel wanted to understand this prophecy but when he tried to comprehend it, it literally made him sick.

Dan 8:27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.

This prophecy is similar in its scope to the prophecy in Daniel 12. Isaac Newton in his book, 'Observations on Daniel and the Apocalypse of John', claimed these two prophecies were one and the same. Again a timeline is mentioned:

Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Again, a double witness is used to emphasize the futuristic makeup of this prophecy. Not spoken by man but an angel.

So, no one could possibly understand these prophecies whatsoever, until the time of the end occurred.

The 666 prophecy in Rev 13:18 is also unique. It is written to the person that has understanding and that is understanding in a biblical sense; not worldly understanding. Those who don't have biblical understanding could never figure out this prophecy.

I agree with you. We should be really careful. Authentic Christianity is based on the conviction that God’s objective revelation (the Bible) approached rationally yields divine truth in perfectly sufficient measure. Everything we need to know for life and godliness is there for us in Scripture. We don’t need to seek principles for godly or successful living through any other source. Scripture is not only wholly truth; it is also the highest standard of all truth—the rule by which all truth-claims must be measured.

By the way, I don't believe the antichrist will be a man. He will only look like a man.

Psalm 10:18 (KJV) To judge the fatherless and the oppressed, that the man of the earth may no more oppress.

The man of the earth is one of the title's for Satan. I believe it is the same "man" mentioned in 2Thess 2:3. The son of perdition, is one of Satan's titles. Literally, the son who perishes, the "man" who oppresses the Earth, the "man" of lawlessness or sin.

I will ask this question though, Do you believe we are living in the biblical "time of the end" or is it yet still future?

Katabole wrote: I agree with you. We should be really careful. Authentic Christianity is based on the conviction that God’s objective revelation (the Bible) approached rationally yields divine truth in perfectly sufficient measure. Everything we need to know for life and godliness is there for us in Scripture. We don’t need to seek principles for godly or successful living through any other source. Scripture is not only wholly truth; it is also the highest standard of all truth—the rule by which all truth-claims must be measured.

Yes... Agreed. To me too that is indisputable.

Katabole wrote:By the way, I don't believe the antichrist will be a man. He will only look like a man.

Psalm 10:18 (KJV) To judge the fatherless and the oppressed, that the man of the earth may no more oppress.

The man of the earth is one of the title's for Satan. I believe it is the same "man" mentioned in 2Thess 2:3. The son of perdition, is one of Satan's titles. Literally, the son who perishes, the "man" who oppresses the Earth, the "man" of lawlessness or sin.

Interesting.. I would lean to that He will be a literal man. But you might have a point here. Again something to consider when the event occurs..

Katabole wrote:I will ask this question though, Do you believe we are living in the biblical "time of the end" or is it yet still future?

There are some interesting markers that have come up recently that have got my radar up. It certainly IS possible we are in the end times now however, I can't be totally sure about that either.. I love to hear however what people's theories are. I grow hesitant and not respectful of people who spot weld issues either. I tend to keep those things in check. I'm very careful about such things..