Evidence for God from Science

After listening to a Facebook atheist bash Christianity, saying how he won't believe in something theres no evidence for, and all that noise, he said something along the lines of "atheists are the most hated minorities" "their constitutional rights are stepped on because they're not Christians"
He seems to be delusional as in this country, we are no longer allowed to speak of God in public , or in school, so it seems the atheists are stepping all over our constitutional rights. How can they be so delusional and woe is me?

dorkmaster wrote:After listening to a Facebook atheist bash Christianity, saying how he won't believe in something theres no evidence for, and all that noise, he said something along the lines of "atheists are the most hated minorities" "their constitutional rights are stepped on because they're not Christians"
He seems to be delusional as in this country, we are no longer allowed to speak of God in public , or in school, so it seems the atheists are stepping all over our constitutional rights. How can they be so delusional and woe is me?

I’m afraid we all have our presuppositions and no amount of reasoning will change the thoughts of atheists entrenched in their pre-commitment to philosophical naturalism. I’ve gone back to debating atheists on a couple of forums recently and it is the same old nonsense: “I’m invisible and standing behind you and you can’t falsify it”; “I might as well say the Flying Spaghetti Monster did it”; “…or the Tooth Fairy”…and here’s a new one on me, “the super Moby **** of space”; These are the types of responses I’ve had to valid logical proofs offered for the existence of God.

It’s quite remarkable the level of total and utter ignorance coming from these people. I’m not one to back out, and I’ve called them on their shirking of the proofs. I’ve had all the ad hominems, red herrings, genetic fallacies etc. come my way. But they can’t refute the arguments; and they are backing out one by one.

But you are never going to sway them away from their silliness, so it’s either don’t bother with them or go into battle. I prefer the latter. I believe it is our duty to show their arguments up for what they are. They won’t see it, but there are always plenty of onlookers, some of who are neutral, and if we can reach *them*, and show them that the atheist has no rational argument in him, then it just might be worth it.

Danny

They are probably not atheists. Most people I come across are anti-theists. Or as Ravi Zacharias cals them HATEtheists.

Satan is doing a fine job in conscripting his army. They are all signing up for the right to be wrong.

I always do think that its not worth it... these people aren't open and no amount of evidence is going to change their minds, it takes God to really change their hearts. Then I think of a small seed that may be planted or of people who may be watching the conversation and haven't made up their minds. If atheists dominate a discussion like they have in so many places (youtube, atheist websites, news sites, etc), the weaker ones among us without a lot of Christian support in their personal lives, what are they going to think?

On the other hand, if what I've seen happen more and more (still not enough, mind you) continues and grows, good things will happen eventually. I'm talking about atheists using the same tired old non-arguments (I call them non-arguments because they're really just ad hominems and stale cliches like "There is NO evidence for God!" even if you've presented multiple evidences) and Christians calling them out on it with at least a degree of grace and continuing to present actual facts and evidence. Its amazing the number of atheists that are completely unprepared for that and have no evidence for their position. Interesting how so many are exactly what they claim Christians to believe. They have no evidence or real reasons to believe what they do, and yet they cling to position and attack anyone who does try to bring real points to the debate.

dorkmaster wrote:After listening to a Facebook atheist bash Christianity, saying how he won't believe in something theres no evidence for, and all that noise, he said something along the lines of "atheists are the most hated minorities" "their constitutional rights are stepped on because they're not Christians"
He seems to be delusional as in this country, we are no longer allowed to speak of God in public , or in school, so it seems the atheists are stepping all over our constitutional rights. How can they be so delusional and woe is me?

BTW, the basic premise, "something theres no evidence for", is denied by the bible itself, here Rom 1:20. Here it says that what is seen shows Gods invisible qualities. Thus, we should not be afraid to look at ANY scientific evidence (evidence generated by correct use of the scientific method, not "scientists believe"). If God, as stated in Romans, says that what is seen shows God, no actual verified wevidence, that includes everything, cosmology, biology, dare I say it, even evolution (if true) will disprove God. Thus we should be unafraid to honestly look at ANY natural evidence. We should EXPECT that it will show God, and look to discover that. many Christians today ae afraid of science, and seem to be constantly afraid that such and such will disprove God. God said different, so it is time to stop being so afraid that such and such will disprove God, and start looking to see how it will actually prove God, as God stated it will.

And yes, that includes the dreaded evolution, which is physically possible, yet statistically impossible, just as is a universe where it is even physically possible is also statistically impossible (the chance for random chance to arrive at this universe is 1 chance in 10*10*123 (10 to the power 10 to the power 123, 2 exponents)). The conclusion, if evolution is false, there must be a God, and if it is true, there must be a God.

There are also former athiests who did, indeed, come to believe in Jesus, nothing is impossible with God. Your job is simply to tell them the truth, it is up to God from there.

It's kind of funny that I used that statistic above and the atheist completely dismissed it as anything. Funny really

dorkmaster wrote:It's kind of funny that I used that statistic above and the atheist completely dismissed it as anything. Funny really

If I were them, I wouldn't go to Vegas...

Legatus wrote: And yes, that includes the dreaded evolution, which is physically possible, yet statistically impossible, just as is a universe where it is even physically possible is also statistically impossible (the chance for random chance to arrive at this universe is 1 chance in 10*10*123 (10 to the power 10 to the power 123, 2 exponents)). The conclusion, if evolution is false, there must be a God, and if it is true, there must be a God.

There are people who cling to the weak anthropic principle and say that "in a Universe where just one of the fundamental constants that govern nature was changed - say, the strength of gravity - we wouldn’t be here to wonder why gravity is the strength it is."
And they stop there and hold that position till the end of their life.

1over137 wrote:

Legatus wrote: And yes, that includes the dreaded evolution, which is physically possible, yet statistically impossible, just as is a universe where it is even physically possible is also statistically impossible (the chance for random chance to arrive at this universe is 1 chance in 10*10*123 (10 to the power 10 to the power 123, 2 exponents)). The conclusion, if evolution is false, there must be a God, and if it is true, there must be a God.

There are people who cling to the weak anthropic principle and say that "in a Universe where just one of the fundamental constants that govern nature was changed - say, the strength of gravity - we wouldn’t be here to wonder why gravity is the strength it is."
And they stop there and hold that position till the end of their life.

Well in and of itself is probably enough to refute naturalism but of course there is so so much more ...

dorkmaster wrote:After listening to a Facebook atheist bash Christianity, saying how he won't believe in something theres no evidence for, and all that noise, he said something along the lines of "atheists are the most hated minorities" "their constitutional rights are stepped on because they're not Christians"
He seems to be delusional as in this country, we are no longer allowed to speak of God in public , or in school, so it seems the atheists are stepping all over our constitutional rights. How can they be so delusional and woe is me?

I'm not that familiar with the US education policies, or the constitution for that matter. Is talking about atheism but not Christianity the case in schools over there?
Surely teaching both schools of thought, or neither, would be the compromise?

You're not allowed to speak about God in public? really?

Proinsias, I exxagerated a little, but not much. Recently there have been several cases where high school valedictorians were not allowed to talk about God in their graduation speeches because some atheist student or parent complained that went against their rights. Today, I read about how the veterans affairs board( I think, I mostly skimmed the article) are now prohibiting pastors from mentioning God or Jesus in their funeral services. It's getting really bad over here.

dorkmaster wrote:Proinsias, I exxagerated a little, but not much. Recently there have been several cases where high school valedictorians were not allowed to talk about God in their graduation speeches because some atheist student or parent complained that went against their rights. Today, I read about how the veterans affairs board( I think, I mostly skimmed the article) are now prohibiting pastors from mentioning God or Jesus in their funeral services. It's getting really bad over here.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

It makes me laugh. If it is unconstitutional for a high school valedictorian to talk about God, that means: the high school valedictorian is congress, and by talking about God they are making a law, ratifying it, implementing it, and using it to establish a religion.

Politically correct hell-spawn garbage logic at its finest.

MarcusOfLycia wrote:

dorkmaster wrote:Proinsias, I exxagerated a little, but not much. Recently there have been several cases where high school valedictorians were not allowed to talk about God in their graduation speeches because some atheist student or parent complained that went against their rights. Today, I read about how the veterans affairs board( I think, I mostly skimmed the article) are now prohibiting pastors from mentioning God or Jesus in their funeral services. It's getting really bad over here.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

It makes me laugh. If it is unconstitutional for a high school valedictorian to talk about God, that means: the high school valedictorian is congress, and by talking about God they are making a law, ratifying it, implementing it, and using it to establish a religion.

Politically correct hell-spawn garbage logic at its finest.

As a good citizen, the thing to do is to first, arrainge legal council, next arrainge witnesses with video capability for a permanent record. Then, march up to that podium and talk about God anyway. If they object, inform them of your legal council and quote the constitution from that podium to everyone (most of them won't know it's actual words, they went to public shool after all), and continue your talk. If they try to remove you, that is what your wintesses are for (prefferable witness who could also be described as "muscle"). If they simply try and intimidate you off the stage, ignore them, stay there, finish your speach (you can throw in some 60's stuff like "the man is harrassing me" to get the crowd on your side). If they try and forcibly remove you from that stage, when there is no law that states you are not allowed to do what you are doing (drafted, voted on, ratafied, at any level including state and local), you immediatly place them under citizens arrest on a charge of false arrest at the very least, assault and battery if they are too rough, that is what your wintess/muscle is for, did you bring the handcuffs, good, use them, in a case of felony assault you are allowed to use force. If they try and use legal harassing tactics to drain you of money, sue them for false arrest, drain them, be ruthless, it is your duty as a citizen to punish these unlawfull acts. Punish them hard enough that no one ever does it again, that is what the law is for.

It is because the citizens of this country have become passive and no longer stand up for the laws and constitution as written that people are able to get away with the above unlawfull acts. We do have laws and the constitution, use them. It is, after all, your Christian duty to follow the laws, including the highest law, the constitution, and to support the leaders of this country, which, in a democracy, is you.

Legatus wrote:

dorkmaster wrote:It's kind of funny that I used that statistic above and the atheist completely dismissed it as anything. Funny really

If I were them, I wouldn't go to Vegas...

narnia4 wrote:I always do think that its not worth it... these people aren't open and no amount of evidence is going to change their minds, it takes God to really change their hearts.

And your mind is open because you only believe in ONE system?

Throughout my life, it's seemed that atheists are the ones with the opened minds. The majority of religious people will say you're going to burn in hell if you don't believe what they believe.. That sounds like a closed mind to me..