What i've learned about atheism
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What i've learned about atheism
So I've been thinking lately about the irony in atheists... and when I mean atheists, I mean the ones that stick to their guns, who try to define everything within a material worldview.
From my experience of dealing with atheists, I've seen them step into a pool of ironic stupidity....
think of this...
"The chances of gravity ceasing to exists is .000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 %." If it did happen it would be a miracle.
"The chances of the universe being life permitting is .0000000000000000000000000000000001%." Yet to them, it isn't a miracle?!?!
I don't understand that type of "logic."
On top of, how can they truly be "logical," or know that they are logical?
In their worldview everything immaterial has to be explained through material means..well then, how do they account for immaterial things that can't be found in nature, like logic? Where is logic growing? Which atoms in our head are "logic?" On top of why is that a universe with no objective purpose (i.e. heat death to all of the universe) should be life permitting? And that the universe should follow immaterial laws that an atheists can't justify like the laws of logic, and gravity?
On top of, they use the terms "free thinker" a lot but that implies that have choice. In a universe where every succeeding action comes from a preceding event (material determinism) there is no true free will, or choice. Choice within itself is an illusion and is only the result of molecular anarchy and natural processes. Neuro scientists like Sam Harris/Steven Pinker totally agree with this.
To me, it looks like atheism can't even get off the ground. What they define within their worldview "logic and reasoning," they can't even get off the ground. Their worldview is truly based upon Socratic ignorance and is philosophically bankrupt. Do they honestly believe this world is created by ancient chemicals, infinite luck, and blind chance?
While I'm at it I may wanna bring up morals. First off, morals imply that we have a choice over the opposite (not having morals) which makes no sense because within their worldview there is no choice... Secondly there is no objective, concrete moral framework outside of the brain. In a practical sense, it's not that atheist can't be a good chap, or have some sense of ethics... it's the fact that all morals are a preference and are different from person to person, that's what true moral subjectivity is. The second an atheist tells another human what to do, they are being hypocritical and no longer consistent within their worldview. In short, an intellectually honest atheist would be a nihilist who says "I strongly dislike ______. or I prefer _________."
But how about the ones that use things like evolutionary psychology, or humanism as objective framework?
Well first off evolutionary psychology only explains what is, not what should be. David Hume, a Scottish philosopher, nicely pointed "it is illogical to derive an ought from an is."
So saying something like "it is nice to help out your neighbors in the yard," is an IS statement. That does not mean it OUGHT to be that way. So with evolutionary psychology, it IS only stating what IS not what OUGHT to be. It gives you the grounds for societies that held up certain values (like altruism) over others (like cannibalism) and may tell you that one flourished while the latter died out but that doesn't mean that we must then follow values like altruism because that begs the question, what is OBJECTIVELY wrong with not having that value? ---then it becomes clear that evolutionary psychology is subjective and just as meaningless as any other moral system.
Another moral system is humanism. At it's core humanism values empathy, and would frown upon things like slavery but would love human freedom. Just like evolutionary psychology, it fails because it has no proof that empathy is a better value than something like selfishness. But even if a humanist brings forth evidence like "altruistic societies flourish while selfish societies die out," it begs the questions just like evolutionary psychology... what is objectively wrong with a person not wanting to have those certain values? So humanism, is just as valueless as anything else and is based upon human preference. That means, on a moral level (in an atheistic worldview) the Nazis hold just as much moral worth as a group of humanist.
...I think i'm done but other than that I HATE once atheists make the illogical comparison of God to something like the Tooth Fairy.
What's really funny is if that were true then the disbelief of the tooth fairy would produce stupidity like above but it doesn't. Only disbelief in God makes one that stupid.
From my experience of dealing with atheists, I've seen them step into a pool of ironic stupidity....
think of this...
"The chances of gravity ceasing to exists is .000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 %." If it did happen it would be a miracle.
"The chances of the universe being life permitting is .0000000000000000000000000000000001%." Yet to them, it isn't a miracle?!?!
I don't understand that type of "logic."
On top of, how can they truly be "logical," or know that they are logical?
In their worldview everything immaterial has to be explained through material means..well then, how do they account for immaterial things that can't be found in nature, like logic? Where is logic growing? Which atoms in our head are "logic?" On top of why is that a universe with no objective purpose (i.e. heat death to all of the universe) should be life permitting? And that the universe should follow immaterial laws that an atheists can't justify like the laws of logic, and gravity?
On top of, they use the terms "free thinker" a lot but that implies that have choice. In a universe where every succeeding action comes from a preceding event (material determinism) there is no true free will, or choice. Choice within itself is an illusion and is only the result of molecular anarchy and natural processes. Neuro scientists like Sam Harris/Steven Pinker totally agree with this.
To me, it looks like atheism can't even get off the ground. What they define within their worldview "logic and reasoning," they can't even get off the ground. Their worldview is truly based upon Socratic ignorance and is philosophically bankrupt. Do they honestly believe this world is created by ancient chemicals, infinite luck, and blind chance?
While I'm at it I may wanna bring up morals. First off, morals imply that we have a choice over the opposite (not having morals) which makes no sense because within their worldview there is no choice... Secondly there is no objective, concrete moral framework outside of the brain. In a practical sense, it's not that atheist can't be a good chap, or have some sense of ethics... it's the fact that all morals are a preference and are different from person to person, that's what true moral subjectivity is. The second an atheist tells another human what to do, they are being hypocritical and no longer consistent within their worldview. In short, an intellectually honest atheist would be a nihilist who says "I strongly dislike ______. or I prefer _________."
But how about the ones that use things like evolutionary psychology, or humanism as objective framework?
Well first off evolutionary psychology only explains what is, not what should be. David Hume, a Scottish philosopher, nicely pointed "it is illogical to derive an ought from an is."
So saying something like "it is nice to help out your neighbors in the yard," is an IS statement. That does not mean it OUGHT to be that way. So with evolutionary psychology, it IS only stating what IS not what OUGHT to be. It gives you the grounds for societies that held up certain values (like altruism) over others (like cannibalism) and may tell you that one flourished while the latter died out but that doesn't mean that we must then follow values like altruism because that begs the question, what is OBJECTIVELY wrong with not having that value? ---then it becomes clear that evolutionary psychology is subjective and just as meaningless as any other moral system.
Another moral system is humanism. At it's core humanism values empathy, and would frown upon things like slavery but would love human freedom. Just like evolutionary psychology, it fails because it has no proof that empathy is a better value than something like selfishness. But even if a humanist brings forth evidence like "altruistic societies flourish while selfish societies die out," it begs the questions just like evolutionary psychology... what is objectively wrong with a person not wanting to have those certain values? So humanism, is just as valueless as anything else and is based upon human preference. That means, on a moral level (in an atheistic worldview) the Nazis hold just as much moral worth as a group of humanist.
...I think i'm done but other than that I HATE once atheists make the illogical comparison of God to something like the Tooth Fairy.
What's really funny is if that were true then the disbelief of the tooth fairy would produce stupidity like above but it doesn't. Only disbelief in God makes one that stupid.
Atheist: "Science says it, I believe it, That settles it."
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Re: What i've learned about atheism
You obviously have a lot more to learn about atheismspartanII wrote:So I've been thinking lately about the irony in atheists... and when I mean atheists, I mean the ones that stick to their guns, who try to define everything within a material worldview.
From my experience of dealing with atheists, I've seen them step into a pool of ironic stupidity....
think of this...
"The chances of gravity ceasing to exists is .000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 %." If it did happen it would be a miracle.
"The chances of the universe being life permitting is .0000000000000000000000000000000001%." Yet to them, it isn't a miracle?!?!
I don't understand that type of "logic."
On top of, how can they truly be "logical," or know that they are logical?
In their worldview everything immaterial has to be explained through material means..well then, how do they account for immaterial things that can't be found in nature, like logic? Where is logic growing? Which atoms in our head are "logic?" On top of why is that a universe with no objective purpose (i.e. heat death to all of the universe) should be life permitting? And that the universe should follow immaterial laws that an atheists can't justify like the laws of logic, and gravity?
On top of, they use the terms "free thinker" a lot but that implies that have choice. In a universe where every succeeding action comes from a preceding event (material determinism) there is no true free will, or choice. Choice within itself is an illusion and is only the result of molecular anarchy and natural processes. Neuro scientists like Sam Harris/Steven Pinker totally agree with this.
To me, it looks like atheism can't even get off the ground. What they define within their worldview "logic and reasoning," they can't even get off the ground. Their worldview is truly based upon Socratic ignorance and is philosophically bankrupt. Do they honestly believe this world is created by ancient chemicals, infinite luck, and blind chance?
While I'm at it I may wanna bring up morals. First off, morals imply that we have a choice over the opposite (not having morals) which makes no sense because within their worldview there is no choice... Secondly there is no objective, concrete moral framework outside of the brain. In a practical sense, it's not that atheist can't be a good chap, or have some sense of ethics... it's the fact that all morals are a preference and are different from person to person, that's what true moral subjectivity is. The second an atheist tells another human what to do, they are being hypocritical and no longer consistent within their worldview. In short, an intellectually honest atheist would be a nihilist who says "I strongly dislike ______. or I prefer _________."
But how about the ones that use things like evolutionary psychology, or humanism as objective framework?
Well first off evolutionary psychology only explains what is, not what should be. David Hume, a Scottish philosopher, nicely pointed "it is illogical to derive an ought from an is."
So saying something like "it is nice to help out your neighbors in the yard," is an IS statement. That does not mean it OUGHT to be that way. So with evolutionary psychology, it IS only stating what IS not what OUGHT to be. It gives you the grounds for societies that held up certain values (like altruism) over others (like cannibalism) and may tell you that one flourished while the latter died out but that doesn't mean that we must then follow values like altruism because that begs the question, what is OBJECTIVELY wrong with not having that value? ---then it becomes clear that evolutionary psychology is subjective and just as meaningless as any other moral system.
Another moral system is humanism. At it's core humanism values empathy, and would frown upon things like slavery but would love human freedom. Just like evolutionary psychology, it fails because it has no proof that empathy is a better value than something like selfishness. But even if a humanist brings forth evidence like "altruistic societies flourish while selfish societies die out," it begs the questions just like evolutionary psychology... what is objectively wrong with a person not wanting to have those certain values? So humanism, is just as valueless as anything else and is based upon human preference. That means, on a moral level (in an atheistic worldview) the Nazis hold just as much moral worth as a group of humanist.
...I think i'm done but other than that I HATE once atheists make the illogical comparison of God to something like the Tooth Fairy.
What's really funny is if that were true then the disbelief of the tooth fairy would produce stupidity like above but it doesn't. Only disbelief in God makes one that stupid.
K
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
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Re: What i've learned about atheism
Kenny,
FYI, the poster to whom you are responding, hasn't been active here for almost 3 years.
FYI, the poster to whom you are responding, hasn't been active here for almost 3 years.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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Re: What i've learned about atheism
John Mackie's book The Miracle of Theism might be worth a read.
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Re: What i've learned about atheism
lol, I say we have a thread party to celebrate the reactivation of this topic.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.
Re: What i've learned about atheism
Kenny wrote:You obviously have a lot more to learn about atheismspartanII wrote:So I've been thinking lately about the irony in atheists... and when I mean atheists, I mean the ones that stick to their guns, who try to define everything within a material worldview.
[...]
K
I want to learn one thing that is the most important with atheists, tell me.
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Re: What i've learned about atheism
They don't believe in God.Yrreg wrote:Kenny wrote:You obviously have a lot more to learn about atheismspartanII wrote:So I've been thinking lately about the irony in atheists... and when I mean atheists, I mean the ones that stick to their guns, who try to define everything within a material worldview.
[...]
K
I want to learn one thing that is the most important with atheists, tell me.
Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
- Furstentum Liechtenstein
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Re: What i've learned about atheism
1. Atheists hate God, Ro 8:7, Col 1:21, James 4:4Yrreg wrote:I want to learn one thing that is the most important with atheists, tell me.
2. Atheists are too blind, sinful & blasphemous to see God no matter what He does, Mt 11: 17,18,19
3. Atheists hate the righteous, Ps 80:6 and Ps 119:22
4. Atheists hate instruction, Ps 50:17
5. Atheists reject God, Isa 5:24
6. Atheists' ears are closed and are unable to understand, Jer 6:10
Oh...sorry! I got carried away! you only wanted "one thing that is the most important" with atheists!
1. They are stupid, Ps 14:1
FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom
+ + +
If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.
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If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.
+ + +
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Re: What i've learned about atheism
Not stupid, FL!Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:1. Atheists hate God, Ro 8:7, Col 1:21, James 4:4Yrreg wrote:I want to learn one thing that is the most important with atheists, tell me.
2. Atheists are too blind, sinful & blasphemous to see God no matter what He does, Mt 11: 17,18,19
3. Atheists hate the righteous, Ps 80:6 and Ps 119:22
4. Atheists hate instruction, Ps 50:17
5. Atheists reject God, Isa 5:24
6. Atheists' ears are closed and are unable to understand, Jer 6:10
Oh...sorry! I got carried away! you only wanted "one thing that is the most important" with atheists!
1. They are stupid, Ps 14:1
FL
They just haven't opened their hearts to God. Yet.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran
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Re: What i've learned about atheism
uh, no. The Bible actually says that atheists are fools, Ps 14:1Storyteller wrote: Not stupid, FL!
They just haven't opened their hearts to God. Yet.
FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom
+ + +
If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.
+ + +
+ + +
If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.
+ + +
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Re: What i've learned about atheism
Then I stand corrected
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran
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Re: What i've learned about atheism
ps Why has this thread got a fire symbol on it? I'm guessing it's because it's a hot topic? I did ask in chat but you all seem to have deserted me
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran
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Re: What i've learned about atheism
Sorry...but I haven't abandoned you. I just went to walk my dog.Storyteller wrote:ps Why has this thread got a fire symbol on it? I'm guessing it's because it's a hot topic? I did ask in chat but you all seem to have deserted me
The flame is on the thread to indicate where atheists will end up after death...simple!
FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom
+ + +
If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.
+ + +
+ + +
If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.
+ + +
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Re: What i've learned about atheism
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran