Evidence for God from Science

Just a few musings on God, time and Creation: While certainly understandable, especially in our unquenchable thirst to interpret available scientific data in light of God's Word to mankind (the Bible), I find the arguments over the length of the "days" of Creation rather amusing. I guess, and for good reason, we are very hung up on the arguments over time: was the first day a mere 10 thousand years ago or was it nearly 14 billion years ago? As an old earth, progressive creationist, I'd say the latter. But whatever the accurate amount of time there's been since the physical universe came into being, it is but a nanosecond to the Lord of Creation, to our God who transcends time and space. Eternity is a mind-boggling thing to ponder. I remember the first time I realized God was eternal, and tried to wrap my young mind around that concept - couldn't do it - and STILL can't. And as God is revealed in Scripture, He has been amazingly involved, active, and has paid attention to the smallest details, yet on an unfathomable scale. And the more I think about ALL the many metrics that our God obviously transcends - as He created them ALL - the more silly the arguments over time seem. And just what was God doing all those years BEFORE He created the physical universe? Were there OTHER physical creations? Is this the ONLY one? Ever? BEFORE Genesis' Day One, did God only create in the SPIRITUAL realm, or were they other physical creations? As God is complete and lacks nothing - He doesn't need anything or anyone to make Him any more complete than He has always been - and as He obviously made us because it pleased Him to do so - I wonder what else in the pre-universe past He may have physically created. I'm sure He has always been busy and active - but as to WHAT, exactly? And does it really matter to us? My musings aside, when we contemplate God's eternalness, our arguments over how old the universe is must be truly laughable to God. And the very thought that our Eternal Creator, The Ancient of Days, personally loves and died for me, just about equally blows my mind. But, even yet, I still find myself pondering the unknowable, eternal past and marveling at our God who had no beginning.

Whether God made other realities we may never know until we meet Him. However, as for what he did before the Earth was made, God created time when he created the universe. Meaning that in some way God doesn't follow time, he exists in all time (in some way or another), future and past at the same time, time which only exists in our reality, which God is not limited to.

Hi Philip!

This topic was discussed a little here http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... =3&t=36064

Check it out if you've got time.

kmr wrote:Whether God made other realities we may never know until we meet Him. However, as for what he did before the Earth was made, God created time when he created the universe. Meaning that in some way God doesn't follow time, he exists in all time (in some way or another), future and past at the same time, time which only exists in our reality, which God is not limited to.

Time is relative but that doesn't mean He doesn't follow time. Also God can't exist in all time since the past doesn't exist anymore and even if that was true that means God is still present 2000 years ago roughly when Jesus was a teen - not to mention Jesus would still be there in that point in time. It is a biiigg problem to the Gospel - mainly Jesus' death and ressurrection.

Edit- Also a thought came to mind, could it be that "time" outside the universe is relative to the speed of the creature - for example angels. I am not sure how God would fit into this except that God could be potentially infinitely more faster or slower than any created creature.

God bless!

"What was God doing before He created the universe?"
http://www.gotquestions.org/God-doing.html

The "Got Questions" response to what was God doing in eternity past references "time" and a "beginning." But these both reference the time and beginning of OUR timeline and OUR universe. It says nothing of what he might have created or what might have existed before He created these. God's stereo likely has a mode switch of unimaginable number of dimensions and realities. The Bible references unknowable mysteries that us mortals are unable to know. So I would say that what went on in the eternity before OUR creation and OUR time's beginning is all mere speculation. As WE know it, those who are creative never stop being so from the time they are able to do so - and until they can no longer do so. So why would we expect our Creator God to have previously been creative only during OUR universe's beginning and OUR time - what about HIS existence and activities OUTSIDE of time? They are unknown!

The other thing that occurs to me is that God has NEVER had an original thought, because as He is ALL knowing and knows the distant future as if it were yesterday, then God's thoughts are not in any time sequence - He stands outside of time. And, yes, He does interact and react to us relative to OUR time, but He's always known whatever that would entail. So can God ever truly change His mind? I'd say His mind has ALWAYS been made up. At any rate, whether or not, prior to our time, God created physical entities or beings? Uncertain. But if He has been active and creating in the spiritual realm (which is almost certain), and as there are no limitations on our all-powerful God, then who is to say that God didn't create physical things BEFORE the time of Genesis?

Philip wrote:The "Got Questions" response to what was God doing in eternity past references "time" and a "beginning." But these both reference the time and beginning of OUR timeline and OUR universe. It says nothing of what he might have created or what might have existed before He created these. God's stereo likely has a mode switch of unimaginable number of dimensions and realities. The Bible references unknowable mysteries that us mortals are unable to know. So I would say that what went on in the eternity before OUR creation and OUR time's beginning is all mere speculation. As WE know it, those who are creative never stop being so from the time they are able to do so - and until they can no longer do so. So why would we expect our Creator God to have previously been creative only during OUR universe's beginning and OUR time - what about HIS existence and activities OUTSIDE of time? They are unknown!

The other thing that occurs to me is that God has NEVER had an original thought, because as He is ALL knowing and knows the distant future as if it were yesterday, then God's thoughts are not in any time sequence - He stands outside of time. And, yes, He does interact and react to us relative to OUR time, but He's always known whatever that would entail. So can God ever truly change His mind? I'd say His mind has ALWAYS been made up. At any rate, whether or not, prior to our time, God created physical entities or beings? Uncertain. But if He has been active and creating in the spiritual realm (which is almost certain), and as there are no limitations on our all-powerful God, then who is to say that God didn't create physical things BEFORE the time of Genesis?

Hmm, I often find myself wondering why would God, of all things, create this universe and only this universe. In fact, I tend to think there are others simply because I can't imagine how God would only create this insignificant reality and pay such attention to it. Does the Bible have anything to say about aliens? Well, there might be one place, but it's in an analogy, so I'm not sure: John 10:14-17 14 “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

As for time, I think that because of time, for us things happen one after the other, but for God, everything in our universe is happening right now - the past, present and future are all like one moment.

SnowDrops, I can't say whether or not God has created other living beings - I'm agnostic on that. And if so, are they fallen like us? In need of redemption? I'd say if they exist, just like us, they need Jesus. Note that even many angels (Satan, demons) are also fallen creatures. But as for alien life in this universe, I think not. SETI has been searching portions of space most likely to be near planets that might support life for a very long time - receiving nothing but SILENCE. Of course, this is just the portion of sky searched.

One thing is quite certain, IF there are PHYSICAL aliens in existence now, they have in no way visited us here, as the very obstacles, physics and extreme distances involved make this a physical impossibility. Google this excellent essay on that: "Aliens From Another World? Getting Here From There" - which is on the Reasons to Believe website.

While I believe that the vast majority of UFO and alien reports, including recovered memories and abductions, have other explanations: mistaken IDs, unknown terrestrial origins, man-made or physical phenomena, etc. Yet, there is indeed a small percentage of such reports that seem to defy explanation. And, in fact, the details of many such unexplained phenomena are quite disturbing, mysterious, and sometimes, dark and foreboding. And, of course, there are DEMONIC entities roaming our earth that may well have been fooling people into believing they are experiencing aliens and related phenomena. I'd put such cases in the same category as those who are convinced they have been in contact with the dead, or seen ghosts, some cryptozoology. Point is, the devil has a huge and very effective tackle box of lures and baits - and he knows precisely which one will be most effective on whomever he's trying to lure into deception. And as soon as one begins to believe the unknown is what it appears to be "on the surface," the closer (and more easily) one becomes to being deceived.

How many claiming a long-term history of alien contact or spirit world contact have also bought into abelief that such "entities" have superior knowledge or insights that are unknowable and of great value to us mortals? And once they believe they are what they say they are, how long before they believe as "truth" what they are hearing from these entities? Very spiritually dangerous stuff! And especially since the 1950s, there now exist several generations of people who have been strongly influenced by sci-fi and paranormal TV shows, movies and books. Millions believe we've long been visited by aliens, that lost spirits haunt houses. They are ripe for a massive deception. Do you know that many organized UFO groups - especially in Europe - have New Age / End Times beliefs that blend a potpourri of their own futurist ideas and the Bible - and especially their on New Age theology mixed with selective borrowings from the Book of Revelation.

As for explorations from both a conservative Christian and a scientific/scholarly view on aliens, the Bible, UFOs, etc, Google "Michael Heiser and UFO Religions." Heiser is an expert and scholar on original Bible languages, customs, etc - you'll learn from him about the enormous hooey that are the supposed alien/UFO references in the Bible.

I personally have always believed that God doesn't follow any sort of time as we know it, because he created time. But then, I really don't know.

Philip wrote:SnowDrops, I can't say whether or not God has created other living beings - I'm agnostic on that. And if so, are they fallen like us? In need of redemption? I'd say if they exist, just like us, they need Jesus. Note that even many angels (Satan, demons) are also fallen creatures. But as for alien life in this universe, I think not. SETI has been searching portions of space most likely to be near planets that might support life for a very long time - receiving nothing but SILENCE. Of course, this is just the portion of sky searched.

One thing is quite certain, IF there are PHYSICAL aliens in existence now, they have in no way visited us here, as the very obstacles, physics and extreme distances involved make this a physical impossibility. Google this excellent essay on that: "Aliens From Another World? Getting Here From There" - which is on the Reasons to Believe website.

While I believe that the vast majority of UFO and alien reports, including recovered memories and abductions, have other explanations: mistaken IDs, unknown terrestrial origins, man-made or physical phenomena, etc. Yet, there is indeed a small percentage of such reports that seem to defy explanation. And, in fact, the details of many such unexplained phenomena are quite disturbing, mysterious, and sometimes, dark and foreboding. And, of course, there are DEMONIC entities roaming our earth that may well have been fooling people into believing they are experiencing aliens and related phenomena. I'd put such cases in the same category as those who are convinced they have been in contact with the dead, or seen ghosts, some cryptozoology. Point is, the devil has a huge and very effective tackle box of lures and baits - and he knows precisely which one will be most effective on whomever he's trying to lure into deception. And as soon as one begins to believe the unknown is what it appears to be "on the surface," the closer (and more easily) one becomes to being deceived.

How many claiming a long-term history of alien contact or spirit world contact have also bought into abelief that such "entities" have superior knowledge or insights that are unknowable and of great value to us mortals? And once they believe they are what they say they are, how long before they believe as "truth" what they are hearing from these entities? Very spiritually dangerous stuff! And especially since the 1950s, there now exist several generations of people who have been strongly influenced by sci-fi and paranormal TV shows, movies and books. Millions believe we've long been visited by aliens, that lost spirits haunt houses. They are ripe for a massive deception. Do you know that many organized UFO groups - especially in Europe - have New Age / End Times beliefs that blend a potpourri of their own futurist ideas and the Bible - and especially their on New Age theology mixed with selective borrowings from the Book of Revelation.

As for explorations from both a conservative Christian and a scientific/scholarly view on aliens, the Bible, UFOs, etc, Google "Michael Heiser and UFO Religions." Heiser is an expert and scholar on original Bible languages, customs, etc - you'll learn from him about the enormous hooey that are the supposed alien/UFO references in the Bible.

Yeah, I was thinking alone the lines of other universes - well, if they exist. We don't really have any way of finding out. All we really have are theories (often somewhat ridiculous) and science fiction. In any case I'm pretty sure that humans haven't (nor can they) contacted aliens (or the other way around). As for UFO's, they are real, but they were developed by people, not aliens.

I'm sure this is the type of question we wouldn't know the answer to until we actually got to be with God. I would imagine God figured we did not need this knowledge for our current situation in this world, where we are using our free-will to decide whether we want to share in his knowledge and eternal life or not.

eric246, I quite agree, that IF God has created other beings or civilizations, it apparently is not necessary or relevant for us to know about them. My first guess would be that IF they exist (I'm agnostic on that) they are either dimensionally inaccessible or so physically remote that it is impossible to communicate with - or even know about - them. Scripture prepares us for all we need to know about while we are here on earth and yet is silent about any such beings. However, as Satan and his demonic minions' goals are to deceive and destroy us, and as they can physically appear as whatever is needed to trick us, we MAY well one day be (and SOME may likely have already been) encountering counterfeit aliens with a deceiving message that several generations indoctrinated through sci-fi pop culture and UFO mythology, and who are looking for answers in an ever-more-difficult world, will be eager to devour: that supposedly their ancient and technically and mentally (and spiritually?) superior civilization has come to offer us solutions and/or to usher us into a New Age. Such deception would obviously impact the entire planet, and perhaps might be part of things Revelation speaks of - or maybe not - but the possibility is intriguing.