Your thoughts?
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:55 am
Hello everyone, I would like your thoughts on some arguments I am beginning to like more and more to use in discussions with secularists.
The argument is about several things, morality, logic, materialism, meaning of life, objectivity.
We are all aware of the selling line of the atheist worldview. That religion has become outdated; that we have evolved to understand what is truly rational; that atheism is superior in that it bravely confronts the hard truth about the universe rather than holding delusions.
I used to respond to such claims by listing evidence that I thought led to a God. I always used to mention, for example, the ratio of electromagnetism to gravity, which is accurate in one in ten to the forty. Or the DNA code, which is 3.5 billion letters long which are in the perfect, crucial order. What I got in response was, "it is irrational to say that those facts point to God, because you are only filling what you don't know about the world with 'God did it.'" Needless to say I quickly bored of such directionless chatter.
So typically in my discussions I now take a different approach, one that takes the battle to the core of the atheistic worldview. And one question I like to ask the atheist is this: why do you care so much that I accept that there's no God? What's so important to you about religion, that you oppose it so vehemently? Sometimes I get that religion is evil. In which case I respond by asking how the atheist knows what is right and wrong, and whether he has a materialistic explanation as to how he got these moral concepts.
And sometimes I get that religion is irrational. Then I ask how the atheist can call anything irrational, without having the concept of rational. He say that he knows what's rational. But how can he, if the laws of rationality are transcendent? The atheist says one can only know what his five senses tell him, and yet he claims that a transcendental law of thought is what told him this.
Then I would ask him, even if Christianity is irrational, which I don't concede for a second, why is it so important for me to be objective and scientific if there is no meaning to life. What are you striving towards? How can you have any aim or real obligation in life with the concept that one day you will close your eyes for all eternity, all your experiences, all your joy and emotions, everything you hold dear will simply cease to exist to you anymore? I will be honest, and admit that if I were in the atheists' position, I would think to believe not necessarily what is objective and true; I would try to hold beliefs that made me the happiest. Why is being objective in holding a depressing worldview any superior to being delusional in holding a hopeful one, if there really isn't any meaning to our existence?
Those are my arguments, you've probably heard them before but I'd like to get your thoughts, how do you think one would respond etc etc. Well thanks for reading guys, have a great day.
The argument is about several things, morality, logic, materialism, meaning of life, objectivity.
We are all aware of the selling line of the atheist worldview. That religion has become outdated; that we have evolved to understand what is truly rational; that atheism is superior in that it bravely confronts the hard truth about the universe rather than holding delusions.
I used to respond to such claims by listing evidence that I thought led to a God. I always used to mention, for example, the ratio of electromagnetism to gravity, which is accurate in one in ten to the forty. Or the DNA code, which is 3.5 billion letters long which are in the perfect, crucial order. What I got in response was, "it is irrational to say that those facts point to God, because you are only filling what you don't know about the world with 'God did it.'" Needless to say I quickly bored of such directionless chatter.
So typically in my discussions I now take a different approach, one that takes the battle to the core of the atheistic worldview. And one question I like to ask the atheist is this: why do you care so much that I accept that there's no God? What's so important to you about religion, that you oppose it so vehemently? Sometimes I get that religion is evil. In which case I respond by asking how the atheist knows what is right and wrong, and whether he has a materialistic explanation as to how he got these moral concepts.
And sometimes I get that religion is irrational. Then I ask how the atheist can call anything irrational, without having the concept of rational. He say that he knows what's rational. But how can he, if the laws of rationality are transcendent? The atheist says one can only know what his five senses tell him, and yet he claims that a transcendental law of thought is what told him this.
Then I would ask him, even if Christianity is irrational, which I don't concede for a second, why is it so important for me to be objective and scientific if there is no meaning to life. What are you striving towards? How can you have any aim or real obligation in life with the concept that one day you will close your eyes for all eternity, all your experiences, all your joy and emotions, everything you hold dear will simply cease to exist to you anymore? I will be honest, and admit that if I were in the atheists' position, I would think to believe not necessarily what is objective and true; I would try to hold beliefs that made me the happiest. Why is being objective in holding a depressing worldview any superior to being delusional in holding a hopeful one, if there really isn't any meaning to our existence?
Those are my arguments, you've probably heard them before but I'd like to get your thoughts, how do you think one would respond etc etc. Well thanks for reading guys, have a great day.