Evidence for God from Science

Hey guys, since it's getting close to Halloween and this thought has been nagging me recently I thought I would share it.

Back in the new testament where it talks about the resurrection appearances of Christ to the apostles, and many of them at first thought Jesus was a ghost, Christ of course showed them that unlike a ghost that has no flesh and blood, He had a body of flesh and bones.

But anyway the nagging detail the bothers me about this is, did or does Jesus believe in ghosts? I mean clearly no one has either proven they are either real or not, but if it is confirmed that Jesus believed in them does that of course make them real then?

If the mind/body view of dualism is true, then I guess our disembodied spirits could be considered ghosts, but if something like non reductive physicalism is true (a view I'm strongly considering) than would that clearly render ghosts non existent?

Plus for anyone who happens to know much ancient Hebrew or Greek, what do the translated words for ghost and or spirit mean?

I especially would love to know what exactly Jesus means when he talked about "spiritual things" or things that are "spiritually discerned", what exactly are spiritual things?

Or how did that time period refer to things in a spiritual sense?

Anyways, thank you for your time, God bless.

Basically in the Old Testament it forbids the practice of speaking to the dead. And looking at certain things in the New Testament it looks like in the afterlife we leave this earth completely - either into soul sleep - or a holding ground until the 2 coming - which ever one you beleive.

Therefore I believe that ghosts are not deceased humans at all but infact demonic apparitions or tricks of the mind. Either way there is nothing good about them and should be kept well clear of.

God Bless

Silvertusk,

Silvertusk wrote: Therefore I believe that ghosts are not deceased humans at all but infact demonic apparitions or tricks of the mind. Either way there is nothing good about them and should be kept well clear of.

Yep, that's what I think too. I think the same of aliens and abduction phenomenon. Read The Mothman Prophecies by John Keel. The entities that he interacts with just (for me) SCREAM demonic, but he never reaches or even considers that conclusion. Many of the so-called "aliens" communicate with their "contactees" via Ouija board or telepathy.

Keel eventually just throws his hands up and says he isn't sure what these things are, but he's convinced that they're not extra terrestrials and are not from outer space. He says they've been here all along and it really seems like they're just bored and like messing with humans. One excerpt that I found to be a bit chilling (and telling):

Some bits may confuse you if you haven't read the book and this passage isn't in proper context. In short, he's talking about his communications with an entity that identifies itself as "Mr. Apol" and sends him messages through different "contactees," all of whom do not know each other.


After many freakish phone conversations and exchanges of letters to nonexistent addresses, I had a definite date for the big December "EM effect." It was scheduled for December 15. By this time Mr. Apol had assumed a definite personality. He was as real to me as Cold was to Derenberger, although I would never meet him. I studied his psychology, his quick temper, his mischievous sense of humor. I argued with him on the phone, sometimes for two or three hours at a stretch. And I felt sorry for him. It became apparent that he really did not know who or what he was. He was a prisoner of our time frame. He often confused the past with the future. I gathered that he and all his fellow entities found themselves transported backward and forward in time involuntarily, playing out their little games because they were programed to do so, living—or existing—only so long as they could feed off the energy and minds of mediums and contactees. I could ask him any kind of obscure-question and receive an instant and accurate answer, perhaps because my own mind was being tapped just like my telephone. Where was my mother's father born? Cameron Mills, New York, of course. Where had I misplaced my stopwatch? Look in the shoebox in the upper right-hand corner of the bedroom closet (it was there).

I should note that sometimes the phone calls would be from a contactee claiming to be passing Apol's words on to Keel and other times it would be a disembodied voice claiming to be Mr. Apol himself.

Anyway, it's a very interesting nonfiction read. I like it because Keel was a scientist and an honest man. He keeps his opinion to a minimum. Many times, he simply tells the account of what one eye-witness experienced and leaves it at that. I highly recommend this to just about anyone. It's entertaining if nothing else.

Well, here are a few verses that mention ghosts in the Bible: 1 Samuel 28:15 (Saul consults a medium to speak to Samuel) , Luke 9:30 (Moses and Elijah appear at the Transfiguration). There's not really any definite explanation as to why speaking with the dead in the Old Testament was forbidden. Also, I have a hard time believing that all hauntings are demonic.

I hate believing in ghosts and demonic possession....

Both scare the crap out of me

Speaking to the dead via mediums ( as opposed to how John, James and Peter saw Moses and Elijah) brings the dead back from their rest AGAINST their will ( As we read in 2 Samuel) and also opens up the "pathway" for demons and "fallen angels".

I personally believe that 999/1000 mediums are fake and that 1/5000 possessions are real

Murray wrote:I personally believe that 999/1000 mediums are fake

That 1 out of 1,000 that is not fake is more dangerous than the rest combined.

Murray wrote: and that 1/5000 possessions are real

No way for us to tell the difference.

I am of the firm belief that if we were supposed to see a ghost or apparition, God would make sure it would be very clear to us that it comes from Him (an angel, a saint, the Blessed Mother, Jesus Himself, etc) so we wouldn't have to wonder.

Anything that seems to be "just a dead person"'s spirit or anything else I would not trust. The devil does have dominion over the earth and he is far more powerful than we are and knows how to trick us.

Possessions definitely do exist and as baptized people, we are defended from this kind of assault (so the movies lie lol). Though, the demons are always trying to throw us away from God. There are apparently many things we can do to try and keep them away from us, certain prayers for example. They also *hate* the name of Jesus. This prayer is also recommended to generally keep you safe from harm and acts as a gesture of charity for others in the world

St. Michael the Arch-angel
Defend us in the day of battle
Be our safeguard against the wickedness and snares of the devil
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray
And do thou, oh Prince of the Heavenly Host,
By the power of God, cast into hell, Satan
And all the evil spirits who roam throughout the world
Seeking the ruin of souls, Amen.

Murray wrote:I hate believing in ghosts and demonic possession....

Both scare the crap out of me

Not all ghosts are nasty. Caspar is known as the Friendly Ghost.

FL

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

Murray wrote:I hate believing in ghosts and demonic possession....

Both scare the crap out of me

Not all ghosts are nasty. Caspar is known as the Friendly Ghost.

FL

FL, I thought CaspAr was one of the three magi? And CaspEr was the friendly ghost?

I've heard a ton of stories where a ghost would visit their loved ones, spouse, children, etc... and tell them that they're fine in the afterlife, that they can stop worrying about them, and that they can move on with their lives. If it were to be a demon, then why would it try to bring closure like that?

RickD wrote:

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

Murray wrote:I hate believing in ghosts and demonic possession....

Both scare the crap out of me

Not all ghosts are nasty. Caspar is known as the Friendly Ghost.

FL

FL, I thought CaspAr was one of the three magi? And CaspEr was the friendly ghost?

Oh...you're RIGHT! my total ignorance has been exposed for all to laugh at! God...TAKE ME NOW!

FL

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

RickD wrote:

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

Murray wrote:I hate believing in ghosts and demonic possession....

Both scare the crap out of me

Not all ghosts are nasty. Caspar is known as the Friendly Ghost.

FL

FL, I thought CaspAr was one of the three magi? And CaspEr was the friendly ghost?

Oh...you're RIGHT! my total ignorance has been exposed for all to laugh at! God...TAKE ME NOW!

FL

that's quite alright, FL. We Americans are used to total ignorance from people in Montreal.

Here's the deal, as soon as you buy into the belief that a ghost, alien or whatever is 1)truly what they claim or appear to be and 2) that you believe that what they might communicate to you is the truth, or that they have some higher knowledge that will benefit us mere mortals - THEN you are ripe to be deceived. Satan and demons can and do even use the truth to deceive us. If such "entities" feed someone enough information that seems helpful, insightful or beyond what we think is possible for us mortals to know, then we may begin to trust EVERYTHING they SUBSEQUENTLY say. And thus the deception then becomes easy.

Over the years, I've met a good handful of people who have encountered "ghosts." To a one, the experience was disturbing or just plain eerie and frightening. I knew a woman I worked with - she had a Phd from Harvard. She was convinced that a ghost in the neighborhood frequently dropped in and had even gone for a ride in the car with her and her boyfriend. Most of those I've known with such stories are real non-nonsense, serious, intelligent people. So I've no doubt that SOME (probably a tiny percentage) people are seeing something that may LOOK like a ghost (or alien, etc), but that is in no way what they think it is. The Bible tells us of only three kinds of spiritual entities: Himself/God, angels (good and demonic ones/Satan), and men who have passed on (awaiting either judgment or that are already with the Lord). Note 2 Cor. 5:8: "To be "absent from the body" is to be "present with the Lord."