What do you believe?

[Murray]

My brother is an agnostic, maybe even atheist, not really sure. He is very open to religion and thought of converting to Buddhism a few times. He goes to church on Easter and Christmas with us. He is currently a lieutenant in the army, and finishes top of his regiment in every single physical test. He is republican but is fine with abortion, gay marriage ect... Very good role model to me, got me to become the fit and mentally alert person I am today, has very strong values, alot of which mirror Christian value. Heck, I think because of some of the things he told me and helped me with I became interested in Christianity.

I do talk to him a lot about religion and generally he get's impressed on how well I know history and how it backs up Christianity my , but yet despite the proof that I present to him, and he seems to accept and actually take in/ acknowledge, he really never takes any action on religion. He seems like he will always be the way he is now, to put it in his words "I do not bother with it".

So my question was, what do you believe will happen to him? Personally, I believe those who are not fit for hell but not ready for heaven will be given another chance (reincarnation), I know many Catholics believe in purgatory, but I am very interested to see what all you in this wonderful community think.

Now honestly, I really do not like reading rough "good does not get you into heaven" or "what standard is your good", because I am pretty well aware of that.

[Gman]

So my question was, what do you believe will happen to him? Personally, I believe those who are not fit for hell but not ready for heaven will be given another chance (reincarnation), I know many Catholics believe in purgatory, but I am very interested to see what all you in this wonderful community think.

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God is the ultimate judge so if you want to be sure, accept Christ or let the cards fall where they may and take a chance.. Really that is what he is doing, taking a risk with his life. I for one see no good reason to deny Christ. There is no reason to deny Christ and I have been debating this for many years. Buddhism is probably one of the last beliefs I would turn to. We have to educate ourselves about such things.

[Byblos]

So my question was, what do you believe will happen to him? Personally, I believe those who are not fit for hell but not ready for heaven will be given another chance (reincarnation), I know many Catholics believe in purgatory, but I am very interested to see what all you in this wonderful community think.

Purgatory is not a 2nd chance, it is for those who died in a state of grace (destined to heaven) but are in need of purification.

[Murray]

My view of purgatory was I thought it was for those who ar not fit for hell but not ready for heaven...
That in the ballpark?


And gman, the reason many do not accept Christ, is because of some of the stances we take, homosexuality, abortion, stances which some are solid on.

What I always try to get to people is you can be Christian and believe that homosexuality is ok, you can believe abortion is ok, you may not be following Christian doctrine dot to dot but you still in essence can be Christian and believe in different things.

Also some (many) may not accept Christ because living an actual devoted religious Christian lifestyle is not easy. Sometimes it even drives me insane. It is a hard choice and it takes devotion and some people just cannot discipline themselves for it.

[Byblos]

My view of purgatory was I thought it was for those who ar not fit for hell but not ready for heaven...
That in the ballpark?

I'm not sure you're in the ballpark. When one dies they either go to hell or heaven. If to hell it is straight there. If to heaven it is either straight there or through purgatory. It could be instantaneous (if we were to attach a time frame to it). Think of purgatory as the Bema seat judgment of Christ, to me they are one and the same.

[Silvertusk]

Purgatory is a Catholic dogma and not one which we all ascribe to - because it implies that Jesus's work on the cross was not enough to save us. Personally I think your best chances are to fall on the saving grace of Jesus Christ. But whatever happens you can be sure that God will be just and fair.

Silvertusk.

[Byblos]

Purgatory is a Catholic dogma and not one which we all ascribe to - because it implies that Jesus's work on the cross was not enough to save us. Personally I think your best chances are to fall on the saving grace of Jesus Christ. But whatever happens you can be sure that God will be just and fair.

Silvertusk.

It implies no such thing but let's leave that for another thread.

[Murray]

What kind of person IYO would go to purgatory then?

A christian that does not follow his faith true enough? a agnostic good acording to human standards? Who?


You all have me very interested in this now

[Gman]

And gman, the reason many do not accept Christ, is because of some of the stances we take, homosexuality, abortion, stances which some are solid on.

What I always try to get to people is you can be Christian and believe that homosexuality is ok, you can believe abortion is ok, you may not be following Christian doctrine dot to dot but you still in essence can be Christian and believe in different things.

Christianity identifies those practices as sins so I wouldn't say that practicing those things is right on. Sin causes spiritual and physical death so there is a good reason why we shouldn't practice such things among others. If we claim we follow him we must do our best to cast off sin.

Also some (many) may not accept Christ because living an actual devoted religious Christian lifestyle is not easy. Sometimes it even drives me insane. It is a hard choice and it takes devotion and some people just cannot discipline themselves for it.

It's interesting how others feel about that... For when I started casting off sins my life truly got much better and clearer. A complete 180.. And my mind became whole.

[Murray]

But back to the origonal question, what do you think will happen to my brother?

A christeaster christian. Has "no religous preferance" on his dogtags". What do you believe

Will prayer help save him if I fail to convince him. Because saldy my reincarnation belief which all of you despise so much only applies to those who have never had a chance to experience christ, a chance which my brother has...

Honestly I do not want a candy coated answer, I prefer honesty

[RickD]

But back to the origonal question, what do you think will happen to my brother?

Only God knows for sure Murray. But, we can certainly pray for him.

Honestly I do not want a candy coated answer, I prefer honesty

Ditch the reincarnation garbage, stop trying to live to please God by your own power. Trust that Christ's sacrifice and resurrection is all you need to believe to become a born-again child of God. Rest on the promises of God that what He says He will do, He will.
Is that honest enough for you?

[Murray]

Rick how is it garbage?

Would it not make more sense to give people a chance to experience Christ? There is a reason that reincarnation is one of the most widely held beliefs around the world and that is due to not only spiritual evidence, but also scientific. And if you read I wrote my brother will not be reincarnated as he had a chance to accept Christ....

[Silvertusk]

Rick how is it garbage?

Would it not make more sense to give people a chance to experience Christ? There is a reason that reincarnation is one of the most widely held beliefs around the world and that is due to not only spiritual evidence, but also scientific. And if you read I wrote my brother will not be reincarnated as he had a chance to accept Christ....

Reincarnation is a Hindu belief and a pagan belief probably stemming form the birth and rebirth of plants and seasons. If reincarnation was true then you would not really need Jesus's attoning sacrifice as you can have another go - but if that is the case then logically it would still be the same soul and therefore still accountable for the sins of past lives.

As for your friend - You can be assured that whatever judgement is carried out on him will be perfectly just and you will have no arguements with it. What that be who can tell.

It might be the case that some people fall under the categroy of those who have the law written on their hearts like Paul says in Romans and so are covered by the blood of Christ. - because maybe the gospel was not presented to them in a way that was proper for them to believe it - but I doubt this is the case and would not want to take the risk.

Silvertusk

[jlay]

Did a moderator delete my post on here?

Those who hold the view of purgatory believe it is for the saved, not the reprobate.

If someone knowingly rejects Christ, they are condemned and will go to Hell.

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:18

Murray, you need to repent of your view on reincarnation.

[Murray]

You guys miss my whole part of "people who have a chance (living in a civilized culture) to experience Christ will not be reincarnated, only those who have had 0 chance will be until they have the chance to experience Christ. Example a amazionian tribesman from 500 AD will be reincarnated. A american in 2005 will not be....