Evidence for God from Science

I've been think if we are born as inherent sinners or that when we sin after a certain age of understanding we become sinners?

The latter seems more just than God creating us with the stain of original sin because of our ancestors Adam and Eve.

God bless!

CeT-To wrote:I've been think if we are born as inherent sinners or that when we sin after a certain age of understanding we become sinners?

The latter seems more just than God creating us with the stain of original sin because of our ancestors Adam and Eve.

God bless!

Good Topic Ce-to like to see what others say about this.

Romans chapter five sums it up very well.
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I found some answers at gotquestions.org. So:

" The fact is that each and every person born from the beginning has inherited the sin nature of his parents, with both the Old and New Testaments speaking to this fact. For example, David says, "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me” (Psalm 51:5). In another Psalm, David states: “The wicked are estranged from the womb; these who speak lies go astray from birth” (Psalm 58:3). His son Solomon wrote: "Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins” (Ecclesiastes 7:20).

The Old Testament prophets also affirmed that a sin nature exists in everyone born of human parents. Jeremiah said, “The heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick; who can understand it?” (Jeremiah 17:9). The prophet Isaiah stated: For all of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away” (Isaiah 64:6).

In the New Testament, Paul affirms an inherited sin nature when he says, "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned” (Romans 5:12). And the Apostle John says this to his readers: If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8).
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B. W. wrote:

CeT-To wrote:I've been think if we are born as inherent sinners or that when we sin after a certain age of understanding we become sinners?

The latter seems more just than God creating us with the stain of original sin because of our ancestors Adam and Eve.

God bless!

Good Topic Ce-to like to see what others say about this.

Romans chapter five sums it up very well.
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I agree with B.W. Read Romans chapter 5.

Mmhmm okie dokie, i have

Can you guys help me out or shed some light with how it answers it ?

God bless!

Okay we'll give it a try, Ce-To - I'll start with a question:

What does the following verse from Romans 5 mean to you?

Romans 5:12, "Sin came into the world through one man, and his sin brought death with it. As a result, death has spread to the whole human race because everyone has sinned." GNB
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The original sin we are all born with is what?
The "want" to be independent of God, the urge to do for ourselves without God, to "be" God or like God.
The sin of pride perhaps? thinking that we don't need God that we can do it without God?

B. W. wrote:Okay we'll give it a try, Ce-To - I'll start with a question:

What does the following verse from Romans 5 mean to you?

Romans 5:12, "Sin came into the world through one man, and his sin brought death with it. As a result, death has spread to the whole human race because everyone has sinned." GNB
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Right so it doesn't necessarily say that it's like a stain we are born with, it's like something that we get influenced by. Yea?

What a about feral children? Did they inherit the sin from their wolf father or something? Where did there sin come from?

I have my own thoughts on this, but I remember reading the words of one pastor who didn't believe we were born with sin. Instead he likened it to a clean person jumping into a pig sty. There's just no way you are going to avoid getting dirty.

I think its an important issue really, but on another level it isn't as important. We all know, without one exception, that we have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God.

Oh certainly the problem now is that we are sinful either way. But likewise i think it's important to know if i was born into the pig sty and dirty or did i jump in it my self

Human sin nature came from Adam as Romans 5:12 and spread so that all sinned...

Think of it this way, when we were born into this world we inherited a sin nature because if we did not then why do all mortal people die?

The problem is how we interpret sin nature. Does it mean the second we were conceived and then second born we are absolutely morally depraved as some teach?

Or are people born innocent as the pure driven snow and learn sin from others and thus corrupted, as others teach?

You can find examples of both points of view in the bible. However, neither one is correct in interpreting the bible text used to proof text their respective points of view.

To put it simply, true, we were all born with an inherited sin nature and the key to understand is this – it takes time to mature. King David in Psalms wrote that people are conceived in sin. Does a fetus have the ability to perform complex mathematical problems accurately?

Does a newborn baby, born 10 minutes ago, have the ability to run a 20 mile marathon 40 minutes after they were born?

The idea of sin is that it takes time to mature in us. Children do indeed have a sin nature, my 2.5 year grand niece (daughter) told her first lie at 1.3 years old! It was cute, and she wanted to avoid making mommy upset. We all laughed it off of course. Kids are teachable, they haven’t matured and likewise their sin nature has not matured. Since teachable, is why I guess, Jesus said –“ let the little children come unto me and forbid them not;” they, if they were to die as children would be taken to the heavenly realm to learn and shaped there by Christ because their sin nature has not reached full maturity as it is with adults.

Do children still die? Yes – is Romans 5:12 true? Then, no we are not born innocent because even children can die but we are instead born immature, pliable, developing as we age. As it takes time to grow and mature into an adult to be able to run a marathon or do complex mathematical equations. Likewise, sin matures within us as well. So, no, we are not morally depraved beings at the moment of conception or seconds after brith, instead we mature that way.

What Adam’s sin did was to set the rudder of the human race to mature in sin as one ages.

I hope this helps you all see this a bit better
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Yes, very much so! What i don't understand then how did it spread ? because it seems to me then that if had it since we were born and it becomes more mature the older we grow then lol isn't it like a genetic disease? How can that be though?

I wonder did Adam & Eve have the Holy Spirit inside them when they were created until they chose to rebel? because if that is true then it all makes sense!

Because if sin is the absence of God then that means when Adam & Eve disobeyed God it resulted in the Holy Spirit departing from them and those who were to be birthed by them since they were our leaders or representatives. So basically without the HS in ourselves we cannot be perfect and we miss the mark almost every single time because we are finite by ourselves ( not that we are infinite when with God but that with God being perfect is possible!).

So the original sin is choosing independence of God, not letting God be God in your life which results in humans who were given a moral realm in their life by God unable to fulfil it on their own, why? Because we were created to Be in communion with God originally and now because we have chosen to discard God from our lives we cannot be perfect any more - we have become like criminals who cant stop committing crimes because our own resources cannot help us.

Am i correct?

One question still remains though, why are we paying for our father and mother's sin of rebellion in the garden of Eden? Is it possible that God only created people in which he knew that if we were put in the same circumstances we would have also fallen?

CeT-To wrote:Yes, very much so! What i don't understand then how did it spread ? because it seems to me then that if had it since we were born and it becomes more mature the older we grow then lol isn't it like a genetic disease? How can that be though?

I wonder did Adam & Eve have the Holy Spirit inside them when they were created until they chose to rebel? because if that is true then it all makes sense!

Because if sin is the absence of God then that means when Adam & Eve disobeyed God it resulted in the Holy Spirit departing from them and those who were to be birthed by them since they were our leaders or representatives. So basically without the HS in ourselves we cannot be perfect and we miss the mark almost every single time because we are finite by ourselves ( not that we are infinite when with God but that with God being perfect is possible!).

So the original sin is choosing independence of God, not letting God be God in your life which results in humans who were given a moral realm in their life by God unable to fulfil it on their own, why? Because we were created to Be in communion with God originally and now because we have chosen to discard God from our lives we cannot be perfect any more - we have become like criminals who cant stop committing crimes because our own resources cannot help us.

Am i correct?

One question still remains though, why are we paying for our father and mother's sin of rebellion in the garden of Eden? Is it possible that God only created people in which he knew that if we were put in the same circumstances we would have also fallen?

You raised some excellent points worth pondering CeTo!!!

I never pondered whether Adam and Eve had the Holy Spirit residing in them or not. To be honest, I do not know??? Excellent point!!!

As for choosing independence away from God, I would add this point: we mature into criminals who cant stop committing crimes because our own resources cannot help us.

Praise be to God for sending forth the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is all I can say
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Heheh thanx

I keep this folder on my computer where i write up some thoughts whenever i have difficulty with a question and this occurred to me a couple of months ago; that no finite being can be perfect by himself, being a limited being will eventually bring ruin upon himself and this is natural because he is limited, at the end of the day only a being such as God can be morally perfect independently. Praise God the Almighty. This is something we all know really.

If being finite we ultimately cannot hit the mark, then this rule also applies to angels meaning the angels in heaven also are guided by the Holy Spirit.

Definitely something to think about, that is the role of the Holy Spirit in every faithful beings existence.