Evidence for God from Science

Hi. I have several questions concerning the chapter 10 of John gospel (NASB).

1 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber. 2 But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5 A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers.”

So, sheep (human) will follow a shepherd (Jesus) since sheep will know the voice of a shepherd. Hmmm, does not this mean that every human being should follow Jesus? Or why some sheeps will not respond to shepherd's calling? Why there would be sheeps not knowing the shepherd?
Also there is an expression ' his own sheep '. Which sheeps are His own sheeps?

19 A division occurred again among the Jews because of these words. 20 Many of them were saying, “He has a demon and is insane. Why do you listen to Him?” 21 Others were saying, “These are not the sayings of one demon-possessed. A demon cannot open the eyes of the blind, can he?”

Hmm. I was once told that demon can do miracles. So, how these poor people could know that Jesus is really God and not demon?

1over137 wrote:So, sheep (human) will follow a shepherd (Jesus) since sheep will know the voice of a shepherd. Hmmm, does not this mean that every human being should follow Jesus? Or why some sheeps will not respond to shepherd's calling? Why there would be sheeps not knowing the shepherd?

The parable refers to those of us - sheep - who are His, not to all people. In other words, the story refers to those of us who have accepted Jesus as Lord. Perhaps the meaning will be clearer if you read it in The Message paraphrase:

''Let me set this before you as plainly as I can. If a person climbs over or through the fence of a sheep pen instead of going through the gate, you know he's up to no good - a sheep rustler! The shepherd walks right up to the gate. The gatekeeper opens the gate to him and the sheep recognize his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he gets them all out, he leads them and they follow because they are familiar with his voice. They won't follow a stranger's voice but will scatter because they aren't used to the sound of it.'' -Jn 10:1-5

The explanation of the above verses is provided by Jesus himself in verses 7 to 10. Verse 7: Jesus claims that he is the Gate towards life. Verse 8: All false prophets before him had no effect on those sheep whom the Father had given Jesus from the beginning of the world. Read Isaiah 56:9-11 for God's condemnation of false prophets in israel's past. Verse 9: salvation is through Jesus alone and this salvation furnishes freedom and rest from the spiritual struggle between good & evil that we are all born with. Verse 10: the false prophets' true motives are laid bare: they come to kill your spirit and keep you enslaved. Jesus offers life.

1over137 wrote:
19 A division occurred again among the Jews because of these words. 20 Many of them were saying, “He has a demon and is insane. Why do you listen to Him?” 21 Others were saying, “These are not the sayings of one demon-possessed. A demon cannot open the eyes of the blind, can he?”

Hmm. I was once told that demon can do miracles. So, how these poor people could know that Jesus is really God and not demon?

The answer to your question is in verse 21: ...These are not the sayings of a man possesed by a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind? - Jn 10:21 (NIV)

The implication is that a demon will not be able to do good, so that Christ was correctly recognized by some present as not being demon-possesed. As for the others, there will always be those who hate because hate is what they are.

FL

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:The parable refers to those of us - sheep - who are His, not to all people. In other words, the story refers to those of us who have accepted Jesus as Lord.

Oh, I see. Thanks

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote: The implication is that a demon will not be able to do good, so that Christ was correctly recognized by some present as not being demon-possesed. As for the others, there will always be those who hate because hate is what they are.

So, demon never did and never will heal a person in order to confuse people and lead them astray? To misdirect them to false prophets?

I proceeded further and came across the following verses:

26 But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

So, the expression 'to be of My sheep' means again 'to be ones who accepted Jesus as Lord', right? And those who accepted Jesus are given Holy Spirit and therefore they hear Jesus's voice and follow Him?
What does the first (in bold) part of the verse 29 mean? Did God (Father) predestined them?

1over137 wrote:So, the expression 'to be of My sheep' means again 'to be ones who accepted Jesus as Lord', right? And those who accepted Jesus are given Holy Spirit and therefore they hear Jesus's voice and follow Him?
What does the first (in bold) part of the verse 29 mean? Did God (Father) predestined them?

Yes, that is what the text says.

1. Jesus lays down His life for the sheep: John 10:15
2. Jesus said there are those who are not His sheep:

John 10:26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.

Note the text does not say: "you are not my sheep because you do not believe"; it says: "you do not believe because you are not my sheep."

And this theme continues from:

John 8:47
He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.

Again, the reason they do not hear is because they do not belong to God. It's not that they don't belong to God because they don't hear; no, the issue is that they don't hear because they do not belong to God.

Blessings

1over137 wrote:

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote: The implication is that a demon will not be able to do good, so that Christ was correctly recognized by some present as not being demon-possesed. As for the others, there will always be those who hate because hate is what they are.

So, demon never did and never will heal a person in order to confuse people and lead them astray? To misdirect them to false prophets?

Demons are unable to do good. Evil cannot do good of its own accord as this would be impossible. God may use evil circumstances to beget His own good purpose. Ultimately, good is from God.

FL

DannyM wrote:Again, the reason they do not hear is because they do not belong to God. It's not that they don't belong to God because they don't hear; no, the issue is that they don't hear because they do not belong to God.

At first sight it may seem that some are predestined to hear God and some are not. Fortunately Jesus says:
16 I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.

So, Jesus says He must bring other sheeps also. It's His mission. But the mission failed since not everybody became one flock with Him. It's sounds like Jesus failed but on the other hand He did what He could. He even gave His life.
What my problem is, is that I do not undestand fully why Jesus said that brought people will eventually end in Heaven. If He would have said that He must bring other sheeps to the Father and then sheeps would have free choice to follow or not to follow, then I would understand.

1over137 wrote:At first sight it may seem that some are predestined to hear God and some are not. Fortunately Jesus says:
16 I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.

Indeed. Jesus has many sheep.

1over137 wrote:So, Jesus says He must bring other sheeps also. It's His mission. But the mission failed since not everybody became one flock with Him. It's sounds like Jesus failed but on the other hand He did what He could. He even gave His life.

Jesus simply can not fail.

John 10:28-29
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no-one can snatch them out of my hand.

29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no-one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.

1over137 wrote:What my problem is, is that I do not undestand fully why Jesus said that brought people will eventually end in Heaven. If He would have said that He must bring other sheeps to the Father and then sheeps would have free choice to follow or not to follow, then I would understand.

It’s because no-one who is spiritually dead can come to Christ without the quickening of God. All who God has given the Son will never perish.

DannyM wrote:[

1over137 wrote:What my problem is, is that I do not undestand fully why Jesus said that brought people will eventually end in Heaven. If He would have said that He must bring other sheeps to the Father and then sheeps would have free choice to follow or not to follow, then I would understand.

It’s because no-one who is spiritually dead can come to Christ without the quickening of God. All who God has given the Son will never perish.

I do not see that that is the answer to my question. Jesus was talking about bringing all sheeps (even the other ones).

Jesus also said:
John 12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”
Are really all men drawn to Christ? I do not understand Jesus's words. What Jesus meant by 'drawing'? Drawing attention? Well, then yes, He is the most famous historical figure.

1over137 wrote:

DannyM wrote:[

1over137 wrote:What my problem is, is that I do not undestand fully why Jesus said that brought people will eventually end in Heaven. If He would have said that He must bring other sheeps to the Father and then sheeps would have free choice to follow or not to follow, then I would understand.

It’s because no-one who is spiritually dead can come to Christ without the quickening of God. All who God has given the Son will never perish.

I do not see that that is the answer to my question. Jesus was talking about bringing all sheeps (even the other ones).

Jesus is talking about His sheep. He is talking about other sheep of His.

John 10:16
I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

John 10:24-27
The Jews gathered round him, saying, How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.

25 Jesus answered, I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me,

26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.

27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

Jesus is clear that they did not believe because they were not His sheep.

1over137 wrote:Jesus also said:
John 12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”
Are really all men drawn to Christ? I do not understand Jesus's words. What Jesus meant by 'drawing'? Drawing attention? Well, then yes, He is the most famous historical figure.

Possibly drawing attention. It cannot mean to draw to salvation.

John 12:37-40
Even after Jesus had done all these miraculous signs in their presence, they still would not believe in him.

38 This was to fulfil the word of Isaiah the prophet:
Lord, who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?

39For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere:

40He has blinded their eyes and deadened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn— and I would heal them.

If you are not of the fold, you are blind and deadened to Christ.

Thanks for speaking to me, bro.

1over137 wrote:Thanks for speaking to me, bro.

Thank you too, Sis

DannyM wrote:

1over137 wrote:Jesus also said:
John 12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”
Are really all men drawn to Christ? I do not understand Jesus's words. What Jesus meant by 'drawing'? Drawing attention? Well, then yes, He is the most famous historical figure.

Possibly drawing attention. It cannot mean to draw to salvation.

This is from William Hendrickson commentary on the gospel of John:
"Jesus promises to draw all men to himself. This all men, in the given context which places Greks next to Jews, must mean men from every nation"

1over137 wrote:This is from William Hendrickson commentary on the gospel of John:
"Jesus promises to draw all men to himself. This all men, in the given context which places Greks next to Jews, must mean men from every nation"

Yes I've heard this too. It's does not mean all men head for head, but rather men of every nation or all types of men.