Evidence for God from Science

With kind permission from the author I have decided to write a review here - because lets face it, there is not many opportunities where you can speak directly to the author on the books they might have written.

For those of you who don't know - Hell's Dominion is an account of the NDE that B.W. Melvin had while he was an atheist. This led to him experiencing a kind of Dante's trip through Hell.

To put Brian's mind at rest I will first say that it is a good book. Did I enjoy reading it however, well that is another matter entirely. I am not lying when I say it was probably the scariest book I have ever read (and I like horror novels) not for anything that was in your face scary but the implications of what it was trying to get across. I have to say that it was very uncomfortable reading which I believe was probably the intention of the author. It did leave me a little depressed about the people Brian saw in this domain.

He saw hell as a spiral roadway filled with 10X10m cubes which acted like a kind of Holodeck for each resident. The dead arrived through some form of vortex and was deposited in them. The general impression by all newcomers was that they were in Heaven as they were greeted by people they knew - but these were actually demons and eventually the scene changed and all that they sowed in life was reaped back to them. The change of scene seemed to coincide with the movement of the Cubes deeper down the path. the symbolism of this was not lost on me - the deeper the cubes went the more anguish there was.

What hit me hard though was the stories of the people in the cubes that were made known to Brian - you really do ask yourselfs - do they really deserve to be in Hell,suffering as they are - for what was really just maybe being a little selfish at times during ones life. I presumed these people were not Christians although that was not made explicit. It did seem incredibly harsh. The bleakness of it all - knowing that eternity was stamped on them and they would ever escape this fate became almost too much to bear - and I was just reading a book.

The cubes were stacked 6 high and as Brian went up to the upper levels the people their were meaner and more evil - and the punishments inflicted on them were much more torturous and horrible. Althrough his Journey Brian was bombarded with words and thoughts from what I presume was either God or an angel that explained why these people were trapped here, my only criticism for this book in this instance was that the explanations given was nowhere near satisfying enough when compared with the horror of what these people were facing - now this could well be that I did not really understand what was trying to be explained (and this is very likely) but even though I kinda got the jist of it - it still seemed to me that what these people were suffering was so unfair.

The description of Jesus was suitably awe inspiring and I was definately glad when Brian was rescued from that hell by him at the end.

All in all - it was a very good book and certainly a convincing description of what a Hell might be like. To be honest a big part of me does want this to have been just an hallucination - or a vivid nightmare brought on by the Cholera infected water that Brian drank and not a NDE as I have many friends and family who are not Christian who will share the fate of some of the people in that place. But of course my biggest fear is that it really is true which why this book makes very uncomfortable reading and certainly a loud clanging warning to non-believers. If it is the latter - there are still many unanswered questions to be explored - but that is the subject for another book no doubt

Loved it as well and it did frighten me a hell of a lot ( pun intended)

Silvertusk wrote:The cubes were stacked 6 high and as Brian went up to the upper levels the people their were meaner and more evil - and the punishments inflicted on them were much more torturous and horrible. Althrough his Journey Brian was bombarded with words and thoughts from what I presume was either God or an angel that explained why these people were trapped here, my only criticism for this book in this instance was that the explanations given was nowhere near satisfying enough when compared with the horror of what these people were facing - now this could well be that I did not really understand what was trying to be explained (and this is very likely) but even though I kinda got the jist of it - it still seemed to me that what these people were suffering was so unfair.

Having it read a couple of months ago if not last year i do not remember the explanation that were given for the reason why they were there very well. I do remember tho that i found them satisfying. But could tell me what they were?

Hi all, thank you for the review. I’ll try to answer some of your questions as best as I can. I have been on the road for the past 8 days on a ministry trip and radio interview at several Churches in South Dakota and returned late Monday night at home. Saw many come to know the Lord, amen.

In regards to the people I saw in the Pit receiving just recompense in fair degrees according to the principles found in the bible regarding reaping what one has sown, I tried to convey the truth about their eternal state. First, it is eternal and by this I mean the following...

God will not deny himself. He gave a gift from his own being to humanity, called life (Gen 2:7c). The gifts and callings of God are irrevocable (Romans 11:29c principle). The Lord placed eternity in our hearts Eccl 3:11 and Eccl 3:14 verifies. The wise woman spoke in 2 Sam 14:14c a central truth – though we die (our mortalness dies) God will not take away life; and yes, God through Christ Jesus makes the only way that a banished one can return back to God, thru the grace of the cross. There is no other way.

So, we do continue on after we die, not in soul sleep, or rest, but as the Hebrew words in the OT imply as shades – our spiritual essence of who we are continues. Though God can certainly annihilate life into non-existence as Job 34:14, 15c states but as 2 Sam 14:14 states, God will not take away life he gave. Fore, if he did so, he would in essence deny himself and prove himself a lair and not really God almighty. He would be forced to go against his own life giving character/nature – hence deny himself.

God did not annihilate the devil for his rebellion, did he? Why? God will not take away life. The devil knowing this rebelled and tempts God to unjustly destroy in order to be able to exalt his own throne above God’s. Sin entered the universe in a limited degree through the Devil and his minions and God designed the current pit of hell for them as Matt 25:41 states. God does not take away life – his gifts and callings are irrevocable. God keeps and performs his word.

Next

This brings us to the reason why fallen human beings will suffer just recompense in Hell. We were designed as eternal moral beings. Fallen humanity lost the eternal life with God and face eternal condemnation banished forever away from the eternal life of God. What God does is forever.

People complain that everlasting punishment for finite sins is unjust. However, such fail to realize that since human beings share a gift of life breathed into us by God who placed eternity in our hearts, a fallen human being’s sin is NOT FINITE it is eternal (Job 34:11, 12c) because they were fashioned by God to be eternal. For God to annihilate into non-being would in essence be unjust for HIM to do as it goes against his own character and nature (Job 34:10c).

Billy Grahams’ daughter, Anne Graham-Lotz mentioned in the History Channel TV show, Hell the Devils Domain, that in hell are just levels of recompense. Jesus stated this concept as well in Luke 10:13, 14, 15, 16c. Theologians mention this as well – just degrees of recompense. This is precisely what I saw, and what people do not understand regarding this instead dare/demand God to act contrary to who He is (Deut 32:4, Psalms 97:2). Thus, they unknowingly fall right into the devil’s ploy to demand God to act contrary to the foundations of God’s throne (note Psalms 97:2c again) and thus overturn God’s rule (Isaiah 14:13, 14, 15c). So reader, which side are you on?

There is no such thing as Finite Sins due to our spiritual nature fashioned to live eternally. Therefore. The principle of what one sows they reap mentioned throughout the bible is true. That is what I saw happening in hell to the people there: their personal sin nature was slowly being uncovered much like how you peal layers off an onion, until the real spiteful being is revealed totally committed to sin and rebellion. The slow pealing of an onion takes time and thus helps understand why there are just degrees of recompense.

People also say God is a torturer, yet, the bible clearly states God is not the one who tortures. Do you see God in the account of Richman and Lazarus in Luke 16:20-31c? Also Rev 14:11 states its one’s own torment that torments. Now note the principle found in Psalms 9:16. God’s wrath is poured out and whatever God does (regarding context of justice/life/judgment/promises/gifts) endures forever.

His wrath uncovers the real person who and what they really are, beings who after entering the eternal gain understanding of what this means, would always seek to abuse and manipulate/pit God’s own Goodness against itself so they remain in sin. That is what I saw and tried to convey in my book. Those in hell would make the only perfect upright land, Heaven, into a corrupt place, like it is on earth now just as Isaiah 26:10. So, the current hell was designed as a temporary holding center as Isaiah 24:21, 22 helps to reveal and Jesus mentions in Matt 25:41c: For the Love of God will banish those that reject him, justly and fairly, with no violation of trust, gifts, etc, to them or to God’s own nature/character.

Parts of Hell are described as a bottomless pit (Rev 20:3 KJV) or as a pit. Other parts of the current hell are also described as to be avoided at all cost (Deut 32:22. Nahum 1:2, 3, 6c, of fire and darkness and place of no rest Isaiah 48:22c).

However the current Pit of Hell is described in Ezekiel 26:20, Ezekiel 31:16, 17, 18 and Ezekiel 32:21,23, 24, 25-31 NKJV. As being round, with Hebrew word – qeber - imbedded in the pits’ walls and the Hebrew word qeber means a grave, tomb, a sepulcher, chamber, or small cell of living cognizant grief, sorrow, travail. Proverbs 7:27 speaks of chambers, rooms, enclosures in the current Hell as well to be avoided at all cost.

What is going on inside these cells/graves, tombs, chambers, is what Job 26:5-6 is conveying, "The departed spirits tremble under the waters and their inhabitants. 6 "Naked is Sheol before Him, And Abaddon has no covering" NASB

The Hebrew word tremble describes living cognizance of trembling whirling, shaking, fearing, to writhe, to grieving etc… The idea of water is the great pressure one feels when underground. For those who have toured the Hoover D-m understand the pressure one feels at the bottom and those who scuba dive understand what pressure is felt in 45 to 100 feet of water. This is being describe in the text – great pressure that is doing something.

This something is mentioned in verse 6 as being naked before God in the current Hell (sheol) because the ruin there uncovers a person’s real them. Much like pealing the union I spoke of earlier. This is done because God’s Love leaves no stone unturned in meting out the reason for banishment away from the presence of God to a person. They are made aware of their damage done in mortal life will not be tolerated in Heaven. God is not mocked.

What one sows, they reap. There is not one perfect good person on this planet. All have sinned and abandoned God’s Loving ways and tempt God, and manipulate, and try God’s goodness and love as evidenced by how we live our mortal lives. Only in this mortal life, now, we can return to God’s Love and goodness and learn how not to abuse it for our own gain. God demonstrates his goodness, love, by calling out to a fallen world in order to allow morally reasoning beings to morally reason themselves in all impartial fairness to decide to return to God who loves so much that He sent Jesus Christ to bear our sins upon the cross and expose our sins in us so we can return to a greater paradise God had planned before the foundation of the world.

God’s love let us beat and whip him, to mock him, put him on trial, spit upon him, plot against him, and crucify him. What do we do to goodness on earth? How have we in various symbolic ways beat and whip others, to mock people, put God or others on trial, spit upon, plot against, crucify in our hearts? Jesus did say, you done these to the least of these my brethren, you done so to me.

For that, Reader, you think for a moment you can waltz into heaven because God Loves without accepting His grace and changed by his great love? That is why there is a hell – it separates the wheat from the tares. From those that tear each other apart, manipulate God’s goodness, grace, and love for their own gainful entertainment, from those justly and fairly reconciled thru Christ Jesus’ work on the cross/resurrection. God will not allow sin to run amuck in heaven without end, he will contain it justly and fairly. So, reader where do you stand – wheat or as a tare?

If you wish to be restored, forgiven for how you treated God’s gift of life and grace – demonstrated by how you really are in the treatment of others. How you robbed, slain, brought ruin to the hearts of others. How such self justifying attitudes steal from your life – then you need to realize that the Lord loved you so much to offer to you an offer, an exchange. This old life of ruin for His life of reconciliation, peace, love, joy, endurance, new moxie of real eternal life from God – his Spirit blown inside you – a new birth!

Jesus said you must become born again by His Spirit to enter into heaven. If you are being honest with yourself, now, you know, you do not deserve heaven for you own life testifies against you in your treatment of love and goodness for own self gain in this life. Whom have you mentally crucified, put on trial, mocked, spat upon?

God does not desire that to continue in heaven. He desires you to be saved – reconciled willingly through your choice not his force as He is that Just. If that is you, Reader, all I can do is to get you started on your way by praying a simple heartfelt prayer and from it, you add to it. Then I pray that the Lord will lead you to a good bible based group near you and constantly renewed in your spirit – new life. So please begin by praying:

God, dear Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth, have mercy upon me a sinner, forgive, make me Born again by your Holy Spirit. Place me into the Father’s kingdom, Place me into your care, place me in empowerment to Love by your Holy Spirit! Hold me now, forgive me…

…my ugly ways I have inside…and outside…I have done…

…have mercy upon me a sinner…I have acted…

…lead me a guide me forever toward you, never let me go…

…If I stray, give me a good swift kick to return me to your way… Amen…
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I've read the book twice, it was a good read. I will always treasure the book, and will only loan it to people of such high calibre as Danny, my wife, a lifelong friend and hopefully others in the future.

If I'm being honest, which I always try to be often at the expense of clarity, it strikes me as someone who had a grounding in Christianity as the main religious input in life and then had a profound spiritual experience. I do wonder if you had spent your teen years arguing and revolting against Islam or Krisna that your experience may have been rather different. To what degree did the divine provide the experience and to what degree did your ideas of the divine influence the experience.

Proinsias wrote:I've read the book twice, it was a good read. I will always treasure the book, and will only loan it to people of such high calibre as Danny, my wife, a lifelong friend and hopefully others in the future.

And it was a very good read.

If I'm being honest, which I always try to be often at the expense of clarity, it strikes me as someone who had a grounding in Christianity as the main religious input in life and then had a profound spiritual experience. I do wonder if you had spent your teen years arguing and revolting against Islam or Krisna that your experience may have been rather different. To what degree did the divine provide the experience and to what degree did your ideas of the divine influence the experience.

From your standpoint, Pro, I know what you mean. The religious pluralist would say that when God appears to people in time of stress, He will appear to that person however he or she had always imagined Him to be, so as not to unsettle them. Of course I disagree with the implied scepticism.

Allow me to toot my own horn:

After reading B.W.'s book 2 years ago, I bought five other copies and distributed them to others freely. Two people (an atheist and a nominal Christian) promptly threw the book away telling me that it was trash. One lady said it was powerful and two others said it was ''interesting but sometimes difficult to understand.'' I enjoyed - and still enjoy - the book. After having read it, I also bought another book on a vision of hell, 23 Minutes in Hell by Bill Wiese. 23 Minutes in Hell seems to be aimed at a Christian readership because it contains numerous Bible quotes & references. I didn't enjoy Wiese's book although it does have some merit...it was on the New York times Bestseller List. Big Deal! I read the better book first: A Land Unknown: Hell's Dominion by B.W. Melvin.

As Christmas season is fast approaching, why not offer B.W.'s book as a gift to those you love???

FL

Proinsias wrote:I've read the book twice, it was a good read. I will always treasure the book, and will only loan it to people of such high calibre as Danny, my wife, a lifelong friend and hopefully others in the future.

If I'm being honest, which I always try to be often at the expense of clarity, it strikes me as someone who had a grounding in Christianity as the main religious input in life and then had a profound spiritual experience. I do wonder if you had spent your teen years arguing and revolting against Islam or Krisna that your experience may have been rather different. To what degree did the divine provide the experience and to what degree did your ideas of the divine influence the experience.

Thanks Pros and Danny,

I currently have a mild fever and a bad cold so I'll try to answer as best I can. There were parts of the book that were edited out either by myself or another editor. One such section, I edited out and rephrased it a bit that answers this. I was an atheist who grew up in a Christian family. I do not think such upbringing had any influence in what I saw during the NDE.

The part of the book I self edited out shares how various people from other religions arrive and greeted by their religious figures, such as Buddha, or numerous Hindu gods, krishna, pagan gods or goddesses, friends, family. These figures were not known to me until after I fully researched many years later on how each figure is depicted. I did see demonic beings give the illusion of these beings to those arriving. So in a way, one’s religious background may serve as a back drop in uncovering the real person’s sin nature to themselves, etc…

I also saw people resuscitated back to mortal life, leaving hell before realizing they were there and report back that all is well or a works based salvation system. I left that part out as it was rather difficult to explain seeing this go about.

I do not think my experience would have been different if I grew up Muslim or Hindu because I was allowed to stay beyond and see what I saw. I also did not know the bible either, only a few minor parts that atheist stereotypical use against Christians to entrap them. Growing up in a Christian home does not teach you things about parts of hell as a pit round about, or levels, or as having chambers. If I had grown up in another faith, the only thing that would help me uncover what happened would be found the bible,, not other religious writings.

I can’t recall the guys name but there was a Muslim man who had a NDE and it converted him to Christ Jesus because he saw who Jesus is. When you see the real Jesus – you do know who you meet and it changes you despite your background. Paul encounter the Lord on the Road and it changed his life’s course. Though not a NDE, it went against his religious background and upbringing nevertheless.

Any ways – need to rest up. Have a blest day!

Thank you for getting back to us B.W. Hope you feel better soon.

I guess my problem is - and probably a lot of people is that we just don't get it on a human level as we all think about it on the finite level. We can't conceive of finite sins warranting infinite punishment - even against a infinite God. Also this whole point of not being able to extinguish souls because it goes against his nature. I don't see how that works as his nature is all loving, all powerful and all just. I can understand them reaping what they show for a limited time so that justice is served but then when Hell is thrown to the lake of fire I see that as the final destruction of all souls that reject God thereby fufilling his all Loving nature to not let people be tortured for all eternity. If God is the author of life surely he has the right to extinguish it - how does that go against his nature?

God Bless

Silvertusk.

B. W. wrote:I currently have a mild fever and a bad cold so I'll try to answer as best I can.

Rest up, Bro, that's the best thing.

I do not think my experience would have been different if I grew up Muslim or Hindu because I was allowed to stay beyond and see what I saw. I also did not know the bible either, only a few minor parts that atheist stereotypical use against Christians to entrap them. Growing up in a Christian home does not teach you things about parts of hell as a pit round about, or levels, or as having chambers. If I had grown up in another faith, the only thing that would help me uncover what happened would be found the bible,, not other religious writings.

I can’t recall the guys name but there was a Muslim man who had a NDE and it converted him to Christ Jesus because he saw who Jesus is. When you see the real Jesus – you do know who you meet and it changes you despite your background. Paul encounter the Lord on the Road and it changed his life’s course. Though not a NDE, it went against his religious background and upbringing nevertheless.

I'm with you, Bro, and I'm happy you see it like that

B. W. wrote:

Proinsias wrote:I've read the book twice, it was a good read. I will always treasure the book, and will only loan it to people of such high calibre as Danny, my wife, a lifelong friend and hopefully others in the future.

If I'm being honest, which I always try to be often at the expense of clarity, it strikes me as someone who had a grounding in Christianity as the main religious input in life and then had a profound spiritual experience. I do wonder if you had spent your teen years arguing and revolting against Islam or Krisna that your experience may have been rather different. To what degree did the divine provide the experience and to what degree did your ideas of the divine influence the experience.

Thanks Pros and Danny,

I currently have a mild fever and a bad cold so I'll try to answer as best I can. There were parts of the book that were edited out either by myself or another editor. One such section, I edited out and rephrased it a bit that answers this. I was an atheist who grew up in a Christian family. I do not think such upbringing had any influence in what I saw during the NDE.

The part of the book I self edited out shares how various people from other religions arrive and greeted by their religious figures, such as Buddha, or numerous Hindu gods, krishna, pagan gods or goddesses, friends, family. These figures were not known to me until after I fully researched many years later on how each figure is depicted. I did see demonic beings give the illusion of these beings to those arriving. So in a way, one’s religious background may serve as a back drop in uncovering the real person’s sin nature to themselves, etc…

I also saw people resuscitated back to mortal life, leaving hell before realizing they were there and report back that all is well or a works based salvation system. I left that part out as it was rather difficult to explain seeing this go about.

I do not think my experience would have been different if I grew up Muslim or Hindu because I was allowed to stay beyond and see what I saw. I also did not know the bible either, only a few minor parts that atheist stereotypical use against Christians to entrap them. Growing up in a Christian home does not teach you things about parts of hell as a pit round about, or levels, or as having chambers. If I had grown up in another faith, the only thing that would help me uncover what happened would be found the bible,, not other religious writings.

I can’t recall the guys name but there was a Muslim man who had a NDE and it converted him to Christ Jesus because he saw who Jesus is. When you see the real Jesus – you do know who you meet and it changes you despite your background. Paul encounter the Lord on the Road and it changed his life’s course. Though not a NDE, it went against his religious background and upbringing nevertheless.

Any ways – need to rest up. Have a blest day!

That! Explains a lot! I never knew you saw demons 'dress up' as other god's or that people went back not realising where they were and then started talking about false things when they came back. Thank you for sharing that

Hoping you get well soon!! God bless!

Silvertusk wrote:Thank you for getting back to us B.W. Hope you feel better soon.

I guess my problem is - and probably a lot of people is that we just don't get it on a human level as we all think about it on the finite level. We can't conceive of finite sins warranting infinite punishment - even against a infinite God. Also this whole point of not being able to extinguish souls because it goes against his nature. I don't see how that works as his nature is all loving, all powerful and all just. I can understand them reaping what they show for a limited time so that justice is served but then when Hell is thrown to the lake of fire I see that as the final destruction of all souls that reject God thereby fufilling his all Loving nature to not let people be tortured for all eternity. If God is the author of life surely he has the right to extinguish it - how does that go against his nature?

God Bless

Silvertusk.

You actually help uncover the problem: people have no clue as to what sin is.

Is sin stealing a candy bar from a grocery store?

Is sin telling a white lie when your wife ask you if her dress makes her look fat and you say NO – let’s go?

Does sin consist only of chewing tobacco, doing illegal drugs, drinking alcohol in excess?

What is sin?

If our definition of sin is limited only to simple finite expressions, then the objections to an eternal Hell have a valid point. However, those things are not sin, nor do they define what sin really is. These maybe spontaneous expressions of inward sin but such expressions are not what sin is.

In America and elsewhere, was lost the concept of what sin is. Jesus died for our sins – so did Jesus die for our stealing a candy bar, telling a white lie so your wife doesn’t go through the roof? Did Jesus die for alcohol and drug abuse alone? Is that the kind of sin He died for?

If a person’s definition of sin is only on finite spontaneous outburst, then is it any wonder the gospel message has so little effect in modern evangelical circles? Think of it – Jesus died because you said the cookie monster broke the lamp, or you got drunk last night and joyfully killed a squirrel crossing the road while driving.

Did Jesus die to forgive you because you broke the traffic law speeding down a one way street or having a head light out in your auto? Did Jesus just die for sins because nobody is perfect because we all just have little problems that a happy pill can’t cure? Did Jesus died on the cross to forgive for stealing a few bucks out of the spouses’ wallet? Is this what sin is that Jesus died for to forgive?

The answer is NO. Those things do not make sin. They are expressions and manifestations of what the sin, inside, does to the heart to express itself but theses finite manifestations cannot alone be used to define sin.

Sin in the Hebrew and Greek original languages of the bible contained the notion of missing the mark, of twisting away, or twisting in and out of something. You could simply say sin is the ability to develop a personal morality that justifies – getting away with it. Sin twist the truth to – get away with it. Sin manipulates truth, love, goodness, in order to get away with it. Sin is the attitude of the heart defined in Jeremiah 17:9, a continual wrapping of love, truth, justice, righteousness, goodness, grace, mercy, etc – for one’s own selfish gain.

It is that kind of sin that is not finite. Even the opposing argument posed as “…can't conceive of finite sins warranting infinite punishment - even against a infinite God,” exposes the wrapping nature of sin. How? By pitting God’s sense of mercy, love, against God’s own Character of grace and love. It seeks to demand God to bow to man so man can twist his way out of a jam – avoiding eternal punishment. It is such attitude as this, is what is infinite because it is what resides in the heart of every man and woman.

Until we are again made aware of our sins consequences by bold preaching empowered by the Holy Ghost (John 16:8, 9, 10, 11c), the current seeker sensitive gospel will have only lukewarm effect. We will continue to seek to circumvent the Justice of God Justice. Continue to choose sin over God’s cure and processes of eradicating it out of our eternal heart ( Ecclesiastes 3:11, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22c Jesus is the one that cause to see what comes after)

Next Subject: Why God takes not actual life away

Why God designed moral reasoning beings to be eternally living is only known to him. What he does reveal in his textbook, the bible, is that he did fashion us originally to live eternally with him. We fell into twistedness of the heart. God cannot lie, God cannot sin, God cannot do wrong, God is not unrighteous but our sin seeks to cause God to act contrary to whom and what he is, to what he promised and given. God takes away not actual life after our mortal being dies…but makes a way so that a banished one can return just as revealed in 2 Sam 14:14 NKJV.

God will be who He is to banished humanity. A God who cannot lie, God who cannot sin, God who cannot do wrong, God is not unrighteous, God who is impartially fair to all, etc. He will make a way for humanities banished ones to return back to him that is righteous, impartial, and perfectly just to the person. The person must awake to their sin and simply seek and call on Him to forgive. The way such awakening occurs is by what happened on the cross.

Jesus was lied about, falsely accused, put on trial, mocked, beaten, spat upon, forced to carry a splintery burden of great weight, stripped naked, his only possession gleefully divided amongst profiteers, and forced to die, stabbed in the side. That is our sin against God and each other. That is the infinite sin of the heart that Christ’s cross erases and paves the way for the Holy Spirit to sanctify a lasting cure against sin's corrupting.

How many times have we symbolically, or allegorically, lied about someone,falsely accused, put God or another on trial, mocked, physically or mentally beaten and spat upon? How many do we force to carry a splintery burden of great weight, or stripped naked, or gleefully divide God’s or another’s possessions for our profit, and forced death and ruin upon each other? Rob their heart, stole their trust, and manipulated their goodness and love? Who have we stabbed in the back and spread this muck around to our families, neighbors, friends? Done it to the least of these…done it to me Jesus said.

That kind of sin is infinite and God made the way that is fair to the hearer providing an escape from God’s very wrath if only they but believe in Christ Jesus – his work on the cross and resurrection into new life. That is the fairness and love of God exposed. We deserve not even one chance of escape for abusing God’s goodness in any shape or form, but God does anyway – to them who believe as Jesus said in John 3:15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 36c.

Somewhere, we lost the concept of sin and by sin, twisted its meaning so as tempt God to avoid His eternal wrath befitting eternal beings who reject his plea to return. Now read 2 Samuel 14:14 again and notice the principle being set forth from the throne of God by a wise woman:

“For we will surely die and become like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again. Yet God does not take away a life; but He devises means, so that His banished ones are not expelled from Him.” 2 Samuel 14:14 NKJV

The means by which God devised for those banished to be able to return is Jesus Christ, the grace of the cross, and resurrection into new life. So reader, is that you? See the sin of your heart that tempts God and test him? Recognize how you steal, rob, bring to ruin your life in the lives of others? You need to be forgiven – How? Please read this bible verse and do likewise in your own words…

Luke 18:13, 14c….
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Last parting thought …

Why God designed moral reasoning beings to be eternally living is only known to him. What he does reveal in his textbook, the bible, is that he did fashion us originally to live eternally with him. He is called the living God – A God of the living and to be otherwise would cause him to deny himself and become less that he is. Something he will not do. So stop attempting to manipulate God and force him to deny himself by manipulated human definition of what love and mercy is. Reader, you are not God – stop trying to be.

Instead, praise the Lord for his way that he alone devised, before the foundation of the world, to restore justly, rightly, impartially those banished who come to their senses – return to Him and transformed out of darkness into newness of life. Be that one, come on his terms of grace, not your own. Amen.

Oh Yeahhhh!!! Well said Brian. Just as we want to reduce sin to our oopses, we want to impune the integrity of God. No wonder we have so many denying Hell because it doesn't fit our ideas of God. (which is idolatry btw)


I always think about that person that tells Brian to "go to Hell!" They have no idea, do they.

If Sin is in the heart - and that is eternal - then how does Jesus change anything then. We will still have the sin in our hearts - that does not go - unless of course something changes to our entire being when we go to heaven we will just keep on sinning. It is human nature.

Silvertusk wrote:If Sin is in the heart - and that is eternal - then how does Jesus change anything then. We will still have the sin in our hearts - that does not go - unless of course something changes to our entire being when we go to heaven we will just keep on sinning. It is human nature.

How does the gospel of Jesus answer this?

What do these verses say on this matter you raise?

Ezekiel 11:19, 20c, Ezekiel 18:31, Deut 30:6, Jeremiah 24:7, Jeremiah 32:39, 40c, Jeremiah 31:33

Luke 11:13

John 7:37, 38, 39c

Acts 4:8

Add to the above verses follow these:

Acts 26:18 NKJV

Heb 2:11 NKJV

John 17:17, 19, 20, 21, 23, 26c

Heb 2:11 ESV

1 Peter 1:2 ESV

1 Th 3:13 and 1 Th 5:23

Together how do they answer your question?

Next, sin is now, for the Christian a choice, not an obsession as with non-believers

See the following verses:

Titus 2:11 NIV

Titus 2:12 NIV

Titus 2:13 NIV

Titus 2:14 NIV

Titus 2:15 NIV
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When our time comes or Jesus returns, whichever comes first, be found in the process of learning to say NO...

That keeps oil in the Lamp and you all aglow...

Thank you very much Brian for taking the time to answer these questions.

I understand what those verses are saying - but why do we still sin? Is it because we are weak - or is it because deep down a part of us still does not really believe we are saved or actually believe in God at all? Is it doubt that causes us to still sin because like scripture says we would have the power to say "No".

Once again - thanks for any valuable insight you have for these questions.

God Bless

SIlvertusk,