Evidence for God from Science

I find it interesting that those who believe in the rapture AND also claim that they love Jews would hold on to a doctrine that claims that they will be raptured out of this world while the Jews get thrashed around in the tribulation. It just doesn't make any sense..

Anti semetic?

http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 22&t=36716

In the end there will be a mutual blessing dude.

Gman wrote:I find it interesting that those who believe in the rapture AND also claim that they love Jews would hold on to a doctrine that claims that they will be raptured out of this world while the Jews get thrashed around in the tribulation. It just doesn't make any sense..

Gman, it sounds like you specifically mean pre-trib rapture, correct?

Gman wrote:I find it interesting that those who believe in the rapture AND also claim that they love Jews would hold on to a doctrine that claims that they will be raptured out of this world while the Jews get thrashed around in the tribulation. It just doesn't make any sense..

Not at all...
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RickD wrote:

Gman wrote:I find it interesting that those who believe in the rapture AND also claim that they love Jews would hold on to a doctrine that claims that they will be raptured out of this world while the Jews get thrashed around in the tribulation. It just doesn't make any sense..

Gman, it sounds like you specifically mean pre-trib rapture, correct?

Yes.. Correct. Beam me up Scotty...

So God's plan to rescue all believers (Jew and Gentile) before He pours out His vengeance on all the unbelievers (Jews and Gentiles) is anti-Semitic?

???

1harpazo wrote:So God's plan to rescue all believers (Jew and Gentile) before He pours out His vengeance on all the unbelievers (Jews and Gentiles) is anti-Semitic?

???

That isn't how it's explained.. Jews, are not included in the main thoughts of it.

Gman wrote:

1harpazo wrote:So God's plan to rescue all believers (Jew and Gentile) before He pours out His vengeance on all the unbelievers (Jews and Gentiles) is anti-Semitic?

???

That isn't how it's explained.. Jews, are not included in the main thoughts of it.

I guess I don't understand what you're trying to get at. I thought that the rapture was to remove all believers before God's wrath came upon the unbelievers.

Also, during the 70th week, God hides and protects a remnant of Israel (the woman Rev. 12:6, 14-16) from the bad guys. Will this remnant populate the new earth during the 1,000 year reign of Jesus?

???

1harpazo wrote:
I guess I don't understand what you're trying to get at. I thought that the rapture was to remove all believers before God's wrath came upon the unbelievers.

Also, during the 70th week, God hides and protects a remnant of Israel (the woman Rev. 12:6, 14-16) from the bad guys. Will this remnant populate the new earth during the 1,000 year reign of Jesus?

???

I don't understand what you are getting either... So in your belief a believer in Christ doesn't have to believe in Christ in order to be raptured? How did you come up with that?

???

More like the Jews willpick up in their race with the gentiles for rightiousness. Look at the second half of the video I linked to earlier. Also look at the messianic Jewish movement in Isreal today. Surely this would not happen in a gentile setting.

Gman wrote:

1harpazo wrote:
I guess I don't understand what you're trying to get at. I thought that the rapture was to remove all believers before God's wrath came upon the unbelievers.

Also, during the 70th week, God hides and protects a remnant of Israel (the woman Rev. 12:6, 14-16) from the bad guys. Will this remnant populate the new earth during the 1,000 year reign of Jesus?

???

I don't understand what you are getting either... So in your belief a believer in Christ doesn't have to believe in Christ in order to be raptured? How did you come up with that?

???

Let me say this: a believer in Christ MUST BELIEVE IN CHRIST or he wouldn't be a believer, would he? I don't get where you can say, "So in your belief a believer in Christ doesn't have to believe in Christ in order to be raptured?" I stated that ALL believers get raptured (at the same time) not that "a believer in Christ doesn't have to believe in Christ in order to be raptured". That's twisted.

Believer in Christ=One who comes to Biblical faith in Jesus through the new covenant of His blood as the perfect and final sacrifice for the remission of sins (can be Jew or Gentile).

1Thes. 4:16, 17: For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. NASU

Let me say it again: The rapture removes all who put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ before He judges (pours outs the wrath of God, the wrath of the Lamb, the vengeance of God, etc.) all of the ones who reject Jesus Christ. God doesn't differentiate between Jew and Gentile in his wrath (except He does hide and protect a remnant of Israel, as I said earlier).

I believe that the rapture occurs inside the 70th week of Daniel. Remember that God again deals with Israel for the 70th week. (Dan. 9:24-27).

As far as the video of Mr. Juster goes in the last 30 seconds, Messianic Jews and Christians won't redeem the world-that's Jesus' job.

1harpazo wrote: Let me say this: a believer in Christ MUST BELIEVE IN CHRIST or he wouldn't be a believer, would he? I don't get where you can say, "So in your belief a believer in Christ doesn't have to believe in Christ in order to be raptured?" I stated that ALL believers get raptured (at the same time) not that "a believer in Christ doesn't have to believe in Christ in order to be raptured". That's twisted.

Believer in Christ=One who comes to Biblical faith in Jesus through the new covenant of His blood as the perfect and final sacrifice for the remission of sins (can be Jew or Gentile).

1Thes. 4:16, 17: For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. NASU

Let me say it again: The rapture removes all who put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ before He judges (pours outs the wrath of God, the wrath of the Lamb, the vengeance of God, etc.) all of the ones who reject Jesus Christ. God doesn't differentiate between Jew and Gentile in his wrath (except He does hide and protect a remnant of Israel, as I said earlier).
.

Yes... Well this goes back beautifully what I was saying before. You are leaving out these unbelieving Jews to fend for themselves during the tribulation.. In other words, a SECOND holocaust for the Jews.

1harpazo wrote:So God's plan to rescue all believers (Jew and Gentile) before He pours out His vengeance on all the unbelievers (Jews and Gentiles) is anti-Semitic?

???

In the Hebrew text the word gentile wasn't used. The word that translators replaced with gentile actually meant "nation"

Gman wrote:

1harpazo wrote: Let me say this: a believer in Christ MUST BELIEVE IN CHRIST or he wouldn't be a believer, would he? I don't get where you can say, "So in your belief a believer in Christ doesn't have to believe in Christ in order to be raptured?" I stated that ALL believers get raptured (at the same time) not that "a believer in Christ doesn't have to believe in Christ in order to be raptured". That's twisted.

Believer in Christ=One who comes to Biblical faith in Jesus through the new covenant of His blood as the perfect and final sacrifice for the remission of sins (can be Jew or Gentile).

1Thes. 4:16, 17: For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. NASU

Let me say it again: The rapture removes all who put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ before He judges (pours outs the wrath of God, the wrath of the Lamb, the vengeance of God, etc.) all of the ones who reject Jesus Christ. God doesn't differentiate between Jew and Gentile in his wrath (except He does hide and protect a remnant of Israel, as I said earlier).
.

Yes... Well this goes back beautifully what I was saying before. You are leaving out these unbelieving Jews to fend for themselves during the tribulation.. In other words, a SECOND holocaust for the Jews.

It is a holocaust for all unbelievers not just the Jews.

So the rapture now includes Jews who do not believe in Jesus Christ?