Predestination

[Tina]

I was just wondering about the people who believe in predestination. I'm sorry, but I think that's absolutely ridiculous. An all loving God would not "pick out" some people an leave the rest to die without any chance of gaining salvation. If He did that, then there would have been no reason to send Jesus here to die for ALL sins. Yes, God does make promises to the believers about an inheritence, but anyone can believe. And if predestination was true, then believers who lost faith and stopped believing would still go to heaven? No. We teach people so that they may have a chance to accept Jesus and believe. I believe He knows who's gonna make it, but He didn't pick only certain people and forget the rest. He gave us the choice.

[Proinsias]

Might be worth having a look around some recent topics. There's been a wealth of info on this recently, the three threads when you click view new posts that have a little padlock icons have gone into this in great detail and that's only in the past few weeks.

From what I gather there's an issue, or isn't an issue, with God creating people that God knows are going to hell.

In my estimation if God knows where you're going that severely limits your choice in the matter. You either redefine God's knowledge or encroach upon free will, or a bit of both.

[Danieltwotwenty]

In my estimation if God knows where you're going that severely limits your choice in the matter. You either redefine God's knowledge or encroach upon free will, or a bit of both.

Or God's will and freewill coexist peacefully.

And oh no not another predestination thread!!!!!!!

[Tina]

In my estimation if God knows where you're going that severely limits your choice in the matter. You either redefine God's knowledge or encroach upon free will, or a bit of both.[/

quote]

I believe that we are here to learn and love. With that said, even though God knows where they are going, He still puts them in their places in time to fulfill His ultimate goal. And people decide where they go by what they choose to do with themselves and their lives. Just because God knows where they are going doesn't change the fact that they ultimately made the choice to go there. He doesn't want us to be evil, but the majority of us do evil things. If we didn't have freewill, then God would have no reason to write the Bible, because it wouldn't be necessary. If we had no freewill, then there would be no evil.

[narnia4]

Predestination? I'm not sure if anyone here has ever heard that word before...

Seriously though, in the Theology subforum there are multiple, long threads on this topic that were recently locked but still readable.

[inlovewiththe44]

I'm sure this was probably already addressed at some point in other threads, but just because God knows what you're going to do does not mean that He determined beforehand that it would be like that.If he knows I'm going to lie, then he simply knows. I don't think He programmed me to lie in that specific instance. He could have just as easily KNOWN I didn't lie in that specific instance if I had chosen to tell the truth instead. This can also be applied to the choice of accepting salvation and belief in Christ. Just because He knows I will does not mean that He was the one who chose me over another person who chooses not to trust Christ. That's my take on predestination, although there are a few verses in the Bible that mention predestination. I'm sure someone covered those pretty well in the discussions that came before this thread.

[truthman]

Predestination is without question a bilbically based doctrine.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

However, a careful honest reading of these and other pertinent Scriptures leads to the understanding that it is any and all who believe (trust) on Jesus Christ as personal Saviour that are predestinated from the moment they trust Christ to receive the full inheritance of Jesus Christ at the coming adoption which will take place at resurrection.

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

The same confusion comes with a misunderstanding of the doctrine of "election".
The biblical doctrine of election is that everyone who chooses to trust Jesus Christ as personal Saviour is not only predestinated from that moment on, but is also one of God's elect from that moment on. The false teaching is that some people were born elect and are regenerated by God without a choice in the matter.
There is a serious contradiction of Scripture in saying that a person could be born elect since the Scriptures plainly teach that God's elect cannot be charged with sin:

Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.

The Scriptures also plainly say that all men are sinners, so if some are born elect, then there is a blatant contadiction.

[neo-x]

People, there are different meaning to the word "predestination" among different school of thoughts in Christianity. This was a hot topic on the forum a couple of months back and was looked at in great detail. Some of the follow ups are even up as active threads, the "molinism" thread and the "reformed theology" thread certainly started in response to the original threads. There was the "Secured salvation" thread, "John Wesley's theology", "Can God have an original thought", "Free will and omniscience", "Free will and All loving vs. Predestination and Devine" and perhaps other threads as well.

I suggest, rather starting a new thread all over again, you might wanna peek in these threads, you will find a ton of information and ideas from all sides.