Evidence for God from Science

In watching a few Evangelical Christian videos/discussions/arguments, I noticed a continued theme of that branch of Christianity demonizing fiction in literature and culture, claiming that all such forms of fantasy and so on to be Satan's way of leading insecure individuals to reject Jesus and join the occult. Among the specific examples I came across that were associated with the occult: Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Magic:the Gathering (a trading card game), Pokemon, all fantasy/science literature and movies and games, Dungeons and Dragons (a tabletop role-playing game), etc. In a couple of documentaries depicting the movement ("Jesus Camp" and "Hell House", both rather frightening in my opinion), these types of children's games and books were denounced as "evil" and harmful to a child's development. Some radical Christian groups have even called for such things to be banned from schools and libraries and, if they had their way, would be illegal.

I, for one, have partaken in a number of such activities. I think the Harry Potter series were well-written and developed, and I consider them one of the best book series I've ever read. I think Lord of the Rings is a classic series, among the best ever written in any genre. I've played trading card games, I enjoy fantasy and role-playing games occasionally, and I honestly think that some of them (DnD and trading card games, at least) to promote creativity and social interaction. And I honestly think that Harry Potter was one of the most influential pieces of my early interest in reading and intellectual development. I think almost every person I knew in high school had some experience with these, and to my knowledge my entire high school was not trying to summon demons after hours. One of my good friends, who was home-schooled for some time and is a devout Christian, loves Harry Potter and pokemon and he's a scholar athlete at a Christian university.

I also can't seem to put a finger on where in the Bible it says "Reading a children's book about self-empowerment" is considered a deadly sin. One person told me that fantasy is akin to worshiping a false god, but I don't think Harry Potter ever told me to worship him. The Pope himself gave a rather positive review of the pokemon craze in 2000 after some Christian groups were concerned over its morality.

So, the question I pose is this: Is fantasy/science fiction really considered sinful according to the Christian faith? What are your thoughts on the matter?

I don't think they are evil, I have read many fantasy books, I enjoyed the Harry Potter series, and I too used to use role playing games.
In saying that it may be dangerous for certain individuals who cannot distinguish between reality and fantasy.

Here is what Richard Deem thinks http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/harrypotter.html
While I agree with what he says about sorcery and such, I think there is a difference between practise and reading a story.
Like I said earlier it could be bad for some people who cannot distinguish between reality and fantasy as they may try to practise these rituals and spells, for myself I realise that the things they are doing are sinful and I would't partake in those things myself.

*edit* C.S.Lewis Narnia series is Christian based fantasy using magic etc...

But you could say that to certain people, every form of entertainment, fiction, and even religion can be dangerous to those who take it too far. There will be people who try to emulate or recreate fiction harmlessly, too. Is your 7-year old wanting to dress up as Harry Potter on Halloween too much blending with reality? I would probably say no.

Richard Deem doesn't really look at it the right way in my opinion. He still seems to equate reading about fantasy and sorcery to believing in it or practicing it. Which it's simply not. Yeah, when I was ten, I wanted to believe I could go to Hogwarts and be a wizard. So what? It let me be creative in a vividly created setting. I just don't see the harm in that. I also take issue with him defending the Narnia series by saying the magic came from an anthropomorphized Lion-Jesus, because I'm pretty sure it's not in the Christian faith to claim to have magical powers from Jesus, either.

If you want your kids to not join the occult, then just teach them what the difference between fantasy and the real world are. You should be able to let your kid read books and play games that aren't stamped with Jesus across the front of them. In trying to ban books that really have no anti-Christian message to them, you are just limiting their experiences and potential to grow as a person. If you only let your kids do Christian things, you're just setting them up to only understand a part of the real world...Because, believe it or not, the real world includes fantasy in our culture and things that are not Christian-based in nature.

But you could say that to certain people, every form of entertainment, fiction, and even religion can be dangerous to those who take it too far. There will be people who try to emulate or recreate fiction harmlessly, too. Is your 7-year old wanting to dress up as Harry Potter on Halloween too much blending with reality? I would probably say no.

Yes you could say that and I do say that, everything can be dangerous in the wrong hands.
I actually do have a seven year old child, and he has seen Harry Potter but I am there to teach him why spell casting is a bad idea, we do not partake in Halloween for the same reasons.

Richard Deem doesn't really look at it the right way in my opinion. He still seems to equate reading about fantasy and sorcery to believing in it or practicing it. Which it's simply not. Yeah, when I was ten, I wanted to believe I could go to Hogwarts and be a wizard. So what? It let me be creative in a vividly created setting. I just don't see the harm in that. I also take issue with him defending the Narnia series by saying the magic came from an anthropomorphized Lion-Jesus, because I'm pretty sure it's not in the Christian faith to claim to have magical powers from Jesus, either.

I never said I agree with Richard Deem, I actually agree with the point you have made here about C.S.Lewis Narnia but in saying that I would be there to teach my son the symbolism of the story.

If you want your kids to not join the occult, then just teach them what the difference between fantasy and the real world are. You should be able to let your kid read books and play games that aren't stamped with Jesus across the front of them. In trying to ban books that really have no anti-Christian message to them, you are just limiting their experiences and potential to grow as a person. If you only let your kids do Christian things, you're just setting them up to only understand a part of the real world...Because, believe it or not, the real world includes fantasy in our culture and things that are not Christian-based in nature.

I totally agree with the above statement and like I said earlier it can be bad for some people if they either have no concept of what is reality, what is fantasy and a lack of understanding of God's objective morality and how that applies to us.

I wasn't accusing you of agreeing, I was just posting my thoughts on the topic. Didn't want to be confrontational.

And yeah, I think you look at it more or less the same as me: The material itself isn't bad, it's the lack of direction or lack of parenting or lack of moral support that turns some of the fiction and entertainment into bad things. I also think it's blown way out of proportion when some groups claim that it is the material's fault that there are so many problems in the world. They point to isolated (and rather rare) instances of kids or teenagers doing horrible or immoral things based on books or games or music, but I still contend that the material itself isn't the root cause.

Ivellious wrote:I wasn't accusing you of agreeing, I was just posting my thoughts on the topic. Didn't want to be confrontational.

And yeah, I think you look at it more or less the same as me: The material itself isn't bad, it's the lack of direction or lack of parenting or lack of moral support that turns some of the fiction and entertainment into bad things. I also think it's blown way out of proportion when some groups claim that it is the material's fault that there are so many problems in the world. They point to isolated (and rather rare) instances of kids or teenagers doing horrible or immoral things based on books or games or music, but I still contend that the material itself isn't the root cause.

Totally agree with your position here

Ivellious wrote:But you could say that to certain people, every form of entertainment, fiction, and even religion can be dangerous to those who take it too far. There will be people who try to emulate or recreate fiction harmlessly, too. Is your 7-year old wanting to dress up as Harry Potter on Halloween too much blending with reality? I would probably say no.

Richard Deem doesn't really look at it the right way in my opinion. He still seems to equate reading about fantasy and sorcery to believing in it or practicing it. Which it's simply not. Yeah, when I was ten, I wanted to believe I could go to Hogwarts and be a wizard. So what? It let me be creative in a vividly created setting. I just don't see the harm in that. I also take issue with him defending the Narnia series by saying the magic came from an anthropomorphized Lion-Jesus, because I'm pretty sure it's not in the Christian faith to claim to have magical powers from Jesus, either.

If you want your kids to not join the occult, then just teach them what the difference between fantasy and the real world are. You should be able to let your kid read books and play games that aren't stamped with Jesus across the front of them. In trying to ban books that really have no anti-Christian message to them, you are just limiting their experiences and potential to grow as a person. If you only let your kids do Christian things, you're just setting them up to only understand a part of the real world...Because, believe it or not, the real world includes fantasy in our culture and things that are not Christian-based in nature.

Totally agree with you. Certainly with my little one, I will let her read most things when she is old enough - because a lot of stories carry important messages and they are good for enriching the mind and creativity. As with myself - I know what is truth and I know what is just a damn good story. If God never wanted us to be creative then he would not have given us the minds that we have.

J.R.R Tolkien was a devout catholic
C.S. Lewis was a devout Christian.

Love Harry Potter, Love Lord of the Rings - love most fantasy and some good horror stories.

However what I have found myself doing and I think this is for the better it stopping watching some types of films or reading some types of books = stuff with just gratutios violence and sex in - for instance I would never watch the Saw series or Human Centipede for instance or all of the Slasher movies and books.

I personally read more theology books than fiction these days - although I still like a good story. Recently read the Game of Thrones series and am currently reading THe Mistborn Trilogy by Brendan Sanderson - really enjoying those.

Also remember - story telling is a Christian Tradition.

The Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter, some people dislike it because of what they see as occult elements. Interestingly, Tolkien as a devout Catholic was sensitive on that issue and actually avoided the use of "magic" in the sense of the occult being used by the bad guys. In Tolkien's created mythology, Gandalf was basically an angel so he didn't use magic. Lewis actually goes further in this regard, but some don't like Lewis either.

So it varies, but I don't know of any who object to fiction in and of itself. Standard of content, that varies tremendously. I love The Lord of the Rings, I tend to think that a discerning Christian can decide what's right for him without much trouble. If watching or reading something bothers you, then there's no problem with not wanting to read fantasy (I understand that many who do have a problem with Tolkien or Lewis are those who have struggled with the occult in the past), if you're sure it isn't harming you mentally or spiritually or that it is beneficial then go for it.

Fiction is a genre and broadly as such it is morally neutral.

The content of a book is something that has to be looked at on a case by case basis. The mention or presence of evil are in the Bible (although the Bible us not fiction.)

The presence or glorification of "evil" is where most Christians weigh in and that line varies as well as whether that line should be a matter of policy or personal choice. Most Christians aren't extreme on this but the ones who are seem to get a disproportionate amount of attention because it is more sensational and grabs audience, too there are people in the media who are not above representing Christians in the most negative light possible consistently.

One other late addition to this (I'm adding it in edit) there are some traditions as well that classify Fiction as the use of images along the same line as pictures or images of God or His creation and those traditions by doing that will reject all fiction (not just that which is perceived to promote evil) as a violation of God's law. I haven't ever met a person that I knew held that view, but apparently there are some out there.

I am an avid participant in every single specific thing mentioned in the OP.

Many of the problems in fiction actually rise from the cruel inability of language to express a concept. It is a problem with a word, not with, necessarily, a piece of literature itself.

Take Harry Potter. The word "magic", to, for example, a hardened fundamentalist might mean "the process of performing supernatural and unholy deeds by means of invoking upon or summoning demons". To a reader (and to the author, for that matter), it would mean "a fictitious energy force forming the basis of a secret society which can be tapped by certain individuals who have inherited the ability genetically". Two completely different concepts, one relevant to this world and the other completely harmless, yet both derived subconsciously from the same word.

As for Lord of the Rings, anybody who has read the Silmarillion or another book about Middle-Earth's history can see that it is greatly based on Biblical creation, and the entire world is completely make-belief. It has nothing to do with reality or sorcery.

Ivellious wrote:In watching a few Evangelical Christian videos/discussions/arguments, I noticed a continued theme of that branch of Christianity demonizing fiction in literature and culture, claiming that all such forms of fantasy and so on to be Satan's way of leading insecure individuals to reject Jesus and join the occult. Among the specific examples I came across that were associated with the occult: Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Magic:the Gathering (a trading card game), Pokemon, all fantasy/science literature and movies and games, Dungeons and Dragons (a tabletop role-playing game), etc. In a couple of documentaries depicting the movement ("Jesus Camp" and "Hell House", both rather frightening in my opinion), these types of children's games and books were denounced as "evil" and harmful to a child's development. Some radical Christian groups have even called for such things to be banned from schools and libraries and, if they had their way, would be illegal.

I, for one, have partaken in a number of such activities. I think the Harry Potter series were well-written and developed, and I consider them one of the best book series I've ever read. I think Lord of the Rings is a classic series, among the best ever written in any genre. I've played trading card games, I enjoy fantasy and role-playing games occasionally, and I honestly think that some of them (DnD and trading card games, at least) to promote creativity and social interaction. And I honestly think that Harry Potter was one of the most influential pieces of my early interest in reading and intellectual development. I think almost every person I knew in high school had some experience with these, and to my knowledge my entire high school was not trying to summon demons after hours. One of my good friends, who was home-schooled for some time and is a devout Christian, loves Harry Potter and pokemon and he's a scholar athlete at a Christian university.

I also can't seem to put a finger on where in the Bible it says "Reading a children's book about self-empowerment" is considered a deadly sin. One person told me that fantasy is akin to worshiping a false god, but I don't think Harry Potter ever told me to worship him. The Pope himself gave a rather positive review of the pokemon craze in 2000 after some Christian groups were concerned over its morality.

So, the question I pose is this: Is fantasy/science fiction really considered sinful according to the Christian faith? What are your thoughts on the matter?

well i can not stay for sure ,but i heard on the news that a boy died from being buried with sand because he and his friends were copying a popular tv show (naruto) but i have watch it many of times i guess it all depends on those who take thing to far like for instants the man that killed John f. kennedy who was influence by the catcher and the rye