Evidence for God from Science

When you become a Christian you get connected to Israel and G-d's people the Jews.. Ephesians 2:11-13, Ephesians 2:19

Just thought I would say that for today....

Shaaalom

Shalom haverim,

Gman wrote:When you become a Christian you get connected to Israel and G-d's people the Jews.. <A class=NETBibleTagged href="javascript:{}" alt="Ephesians 2:11-13">Ephesians 2:11-13</A>, <A class=NETBibleTagged href="javascript:{}" alt="Ephesians 2:19">Ephesians 2:19</A>

Just thought I would say that for today....

Shaaalom

So what about those Christians who are anti-Israel?*

FL

*including - but limited to - Preterists, anti-semites, Christian organizations and individuals who ''dis-invest'' in Israel, Ron Paul...

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote: So what about those Christians who are anti-Israel?*

FL

*including - but limited to - Preterists, anti-semites, Christian organizations and individuals who ''dis-invest'' in Israel, Ron Paul...

They are fighting against their own country...

Land covenants are still in play today Genesis 15:18-19. They have never been revoked...

They are fighting against their own country...

and God


Shalom Aleichem


Dan

Gman wrote: They are fighting against their own country...

Danieltwotwenty wrote:and God

Good answers!

FL

Becoming a Christian makes you a citizen of the "Israel of God" (Galatians 6:16), not some 10 mile strip of real estate established by the UN in 1948. Only those of the Christian Faith are the seed of Abraham (Galatians 3:7)

puritan lad wrote:Becoming a Christian makes you a citizen of the "Israel of God" (Galatians 6:16), not some 10 mile strip of real estate established by the UN in 1948. Only those of the Christian Faith are the seed of Abraham (Galatians 3:7)

Yes.. You believe in replacement theory.. That the Jews are replaced.

That is utterly wrong.. For the Jews were never replaced or ever fallen beyond recovery..

Romans 11:1-28

1 I ask then: Did God reject his people (the Jews)? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me”? 4 And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

7 What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, 8 as it is written:

“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that could not see
and ears that could not hear,
to this very day.”

9 And David says:

“May their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
10 May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see,
and their backs be bent forever.”

Ingrafted Branches

11 Again I ask: Did they (Jews) stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!

13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.

17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches (Jews). If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches (Jews), he will not spare you either.

22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

All Israel Will Be Saved

25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way[e] all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is[f] my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”[g]

28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they (Jews) are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

The Jews as I understand it were God's chosen people. Chosen for what? They were "elect" as a nation by the will of God to be the ones who would provide the lineage of Christ when he came. Following that God's "choice" fell upon all nations, in addition to Israel, in fulfillment of the promises to bless all nations. The Jews had difficulty with making this transition as they went from being exclusively chosen and now were seeing the Gentiles added to the church by faith instead of the other element which nationally identified them and that was the keeping of the Law. This is illustrated in the early church in Acts and in the epistles of Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles who continually spoke of God's having now chosen the gentiles and the evidence provided in terms of the Holy Spirit being conferred upon them.

I'll reserve judgement as to whether there are still covenent promises that yet exist to be fulfilled specifically by God to Israel. The primary function of their having been chosen however has been fulfilled in Jesus Christ as I understand it.

I think what PL is asking is if they have been replaced? To what I say is no.... And, are we truly done with Israel? I believe that answer is no too. For one day Christ will be reigning from there.

But again, this is my opinion.

Gman wrote:I think what PL is asking is if they have been replaced? To what I say is no.... And, are we truly done with Israel? I believe that answer is no too.

The term "replacement theology" is a misnomer. The church didn't "replace" Israel. The church IS Israel, and always has been, even in the Old Testament. While it is true that the natural branches will once again be grafted back into the vine, there is only one vine, Christ. Those who reject Christ are not Abraham's children, but the devil's (John 8:39-44)

Gman wrote:For one day Christ will be reigning from there.

Says who?

puritan lad wrote: The term "replacement theology" is a misnomer. The church didn't "replace" Israel. The church IS Israel, and always has been, even in the Old Testament.

That is baloney.. If your saying that you are Israel and that the "land" of Israel is now void you have just replaced Israel with yourself.

puritan lad wrote:While it is true that the natural branches will once again be grafted back into the vine, there is only one vine, Christ. Those who reject Christ are not Abraham's children, but the devil's (John 8:39-44)

Right... So now the question is, when? According to your terms it has already happened. Therefore, all Jews are of the devil. Isn't that what you believe?

puritan lad wrote:Says who?

Says the Bible.... Where do you think the mount of olives is?

I am saying that God never made a covenant with anyone based on their DNA. Ruth, Rahab, and Uriah were chosen yet not Hebrews. King Saul and Judas were Hebrews and not chosen. There is no covenant without Christ, and there never has been. He Himself is the fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant, not some nation in the middle east inhabited by Christ rejecting Europeans (yes, most of the inhabitants of Israel today aren't even Abraham's physical descendents, and certainly not his spiritual ones.)

Where does the Bible say that He will reign from the Mount of Olives?

puritan lad wrote:I am saying that God never made a covenant with anyone based on their DNA.

Not entirely true.. Read Genesis 15:18.

puritan lad wrote:Ruth, Rahab, and Uriah were chosen yet not Hebrews. King Saul and Judas were Hebrews and not chosen. There is no covenant without Christ, and there never has been. He Himself is the fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant, not some nation in the middle east inhabited by Christ rejecting Europeans (yes, most of the inhabitants of Israel today aren't even Abraham's physical descendents, and certainly not his spiritual ones.)

Again that simply isn't true... While being a physical decedent is not entirely a requirement of the Abrahamic covenant, it isn't exactly void either. Read Romans 11:1-2

Also.. Not all the Jews there are European either. Many are Arab Jews.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Jews

puritan lad wrote:Where does the Bible say that He will reign from the Mount of Olives?

Read Zechariah 14:4. And where did the disciples say that Christ would return to? Read Acts 1:11-12

And G-d has set his name and temple in Jerusalem.. Forever. Read 2 Chron 33:4, Isaiah 2:1-5, Micah 4:2, Zechariah 12:3, Galatians 4:26, Hebrews 12:22, Luke 21:20, Revelation 3:12, Revelation 21:2, and Revelation 21:10.