Evidence for God from Science

OK, I'd like some opinions about this: If I understood everything right, eternity is not the same as infinity. So in Heaven, the time won't progress linearly as it does here in the physical universe, but it will rather be irrelevant (if the quote 2 Peter 3:8 applies here). I've been trying to envisage that kind of reality, but without success. Maybe it's due to my limited human nature...

Another thing, when I try to imagine eternal life on Earth, I think it would end up mind-blowingly, in fact dreadfully boring. Is this a consequence of us subconsciously knowing that this universe is not our real home? A feeling like a missing piece of puzzle that can't be found here? Because I know from my own experience that, if you seek fulfillment in earthly things, you will fail. You long for achieving something, and when you finally do, you lose the pleasure quickly and move on to pursue the next goal. Is our unity wih God finally going to fill this gap and make us settle down? I'm not pessimistic or lacking faith, it's just that I can't imagine myself being completely fulfilled, at least not from my current point of view. I'm sure that God knows how to do it, but my stubbornly skeptical mind is sometimes just difficult to reason with.

Any comments, thoughts are welcome. Thank you.

Reactionary wrote:Another thing, when I try to imagine eternal life on Earth, I think it would end up mind-blowingly, in fact dreadfully boring.

You won't be spending eternity in Zagreb! That would be eternally boring! You'll be in New Jerusalem...a fun place...God starts off our stay there with a big wedding feast! Wine will flow and Jesus will be there.

It will be great!

FL

I think that, being someone who lives based entirely on time and it's relation to space and so on, it would likely be impossible to understand an existence beyond or without time. I've thought about it quite a lot as well.

For instance, is it like you can time travel? When you go to heaven, can you witness life on Earth at any stage, past or present? Or something else? It is somewhat mind blowing to ponder.

As far as eternal life, I agree it sounds boring. I've read science fiction devoted to that theme in excess...And it does in fact seem to be that life without end is also a life without purpose. If you have all the time in the universe, what is the point of doing anything? It's a question about heaven, too...I understand that in the afterlife our human needs and wants are irrelevant but I just can't imagine the idea of enjoying eternity.

You don't have any questions for God? I have a million. The teaching in the Bible is very condensed. We haven't gone much further in science. Too many questions!

Oh, I have lots of questions, like everyone does I'm sure. But again, eternity is a looooong time. I just can't imagine having something to do for that long!

Ivellious wrote:Oh, I have lots of questions, like everyone does I'm sure. But again, eternity is a looooong time. I just can't imagine having something to do for that long!

Well i would rather find out if it is boring or not spending eternity with God than to rebel and face an eternity of pain and suffering.


Dan

Well, to be fair, my personal beliefs do not include Hell in the conventional sense...You can say I don't believe in Hell just because I don't want to take responsibility for my actions here on Earth, but in reality I just have a hard time believing in an all-loving God who damns people to Hell for eternity. Like with heaven, eternity just seems like a long time to punish someone for a finite amount of evil here on Earth. I do believe in punishment for those who commit evil for their own gain, but not eternally. And I certainly am not of the opinion that simply not believing in one religion or another condemns you either; rather, your actual actions and integrity are the things being judged. I don't think God would condemn a Buddhist monk just for being Buddhist.

You can say I don't believe in Hell just because I don't want to take responsibility for my actions here on Earth, but in reality I just have a hard time believing in an all-loving God who damns people to Hell for eternity.

God is not doing the damning, you make a concious choice to go there yourself by rejecting God's love.
Yours and yours alone is the decision.


Dan

That is correct. Eternity does not mean infinity.
Infinity as we understand it, does not exist.

God cannot do anything illogical. Its impossible for God to have that characteristic. He cannot break the laws of logic as we understand from being made in his image and likeness.

1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause either in the necessity of its nature or an external cause.
2. The universe began to exist
3. Therefore, the universe has a cause

<----------infinity------------->
^^^^^^^_
This is impossible by logic, and all practicality.

domokunrox wrote:That is correct. Eternity does not mean infinity.
Infinity as we understand it, does not exist.

God cannot do anything illogical. Its impossible for God to have that characteristic. He cannot break the laws of logic as we understand from being made in his image and likeness.

1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause either in the necessity of its nature or an external cause.
2. The universe began to exist
3. Therefore, the universe has a cause

<----------infinity------------->
^^^^^^^_
This is impossible by logic, and all practicality.

So, how do you imagine eternity (i.e. afterlife)? I guess imagining it as time flowing without end is a misconception? I just can't manage to grasp this, maybe it's worthless to try and do so from the current point of view...

Ivellious wrote:Well, to be fair, my personal beliefs do not include Hell in the conventional sense...You can say I don't believe in Hell just because I don't want to take responsibility for my actions here on Earth, but in reality I just have a hard time believing in an all-loving God who damns people to Hell for eternity. Like with heaven, eternity just seems like a long time to punish someone for a finite amount of evil here on Earth. I do believe in punishment for those who commit evil for their own gain, but not eternally. And I certainly am not of the opinion that simply not believing in one religion or another condemns you either; rather, your actual actions and integrity are the things being judged. I don't think God would condemn a Buddhist monk just for being Buddhist.

There has to be consequences, or there is no perfect judgement. Judgement that is partial, isn't a good judge. "Why does OJ get away with murder, but I get life without parole?"
Also, if the sin goes on forever, the punishment must go on forever.
We're not qualified with any bit of confidence to be the judge, jury, and executioner in these matters. God makes those decisions, not us.

Anyone else want to take it from here? I need to feed my daughter.

I am not entirely sure, reactionary.
Its incredibly hard to try to grasp. Its something I've thought about for years now. We may not understand it, but I am okay with the mystery behind it. I've thought about some models.

|------eternity-------------->

|--------eternity--------------|

I am not sure how to intellectualize the last model. I however am not worried about it one bit. An idea I had was that God cannot replicate something exactly perfect. We're probably going to be in pure spirit form and God will continue to make long lasting temporary worlds in sequence for us to glorify him in because he cannot create absurdity. That's the only way I can think of it with my knowledge. I am likely wrong though. Its just too hard to grasp for our brains. Like I said, I wouldn't worry. I have full confidence in God. Never failed. Never will.

With an Eternal God I think there will be plenty for us to do. He can create whole worlds and universes to keep us occupied. Plus I believe that once we have seen his face then worshipping him will never get boring.

Silvertusk

Silvertusk wrote:With an Eternal God I think there will be plenty for us to do. He can create whole worlds and universes to keep us occupied. Plus I believe that once we have seen his face then worshipping him will never get boring.

Silvertusk

I guess you are right. Maybe we have troubles imagining eternity without God, because He programmed us to realize how boring and purposeless it would be, so that we could come to Him.

domokunrox wrote:I am not entirely sure, reactionary.
Its incredibly hard to try to grasp. Its something I've thought about for years now. We may not understand it, but I am okay with the mystery behind it. I've thought about some models.

|------eternity-------------->

|--------eternity--------------|

Hmmm... I try imagining our present world as 3+1 dimensional - in which we move freely between the three dimensions of space, while we move through the fourth dimension (time) at a fixed rate that we can't alter. We only exist in this present moment, the past is behind us and the future is in front of us. If we were 4-dimensional, we would encompass time in its entirety, making it less relevant. I guess we would then exist in a state, not time.

3+1 dimensions: |------(past)------->|PRESENT|>--------(future)----->?
--4- dimensions: |<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|PRESENT|>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>|

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:You won't be spending eternity in Zagreb! That would be eternally boring!

FL, you made me laugh, by not knowing how close you were to the truth. It's not that ZG is boring (big cities usually aren't), but it's rather the idea of a big, impersonal, emotionally cold city that repulses me. Plus, the winters can get pretty cold and foggy for my tastes, so... It's not a place for me.

Just for the record I would like to state that this is a really good question and I will certainly be pondering this for a long time.

Silvertusk.