Evidence for God from Science

The discussion came up on another subject thread (see Link Below) concerning NDE’s and I thought in order to keep that thread on track we should move this part to another subject heading in the General Chit Chat section.

http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... =6&t=33989

buddhawarrior wrote:Hi BW, nice Initials.

Yes, My experience happened maybe 10 years ago when I was 24. I was swimming in a river in Utah and the current was very strong. I choked on some water midway cross the stream and could not recover the strength to get to the other side. My muscles cramped and seized up and I could no longer keep my head above water. my pride kept me from calling for help at first, but when I really needed it was I had floated too far down stream. at a certain point I realized my fate and made a mental decision that I would give up and give in. I was not afraid of dying. And when I closed my eyes and let myself sink, I could see the bright brown water cover over me and felt the current carry me. I felt my body dissolve, almost molecule by molecule, and as that happened, corresponding memories would flash before my eyes. I realized that I was dying, and I could see a clear bright light/dark. It was neither light nor dark, it was both, and it pulsated. It was an energy field of peace. None of the words I am using right now to describe the experience comes close. The object i'll just say, though clearly not an object, was beyond anything that my human senses could understand. It was beyond time, space, dimensionality, it was everything. It contained everything, was the origin of everything, and created everything. Though it had no will, feeling, nor personality. It was just there, a radiant peace, and I was going towards it. I can not stress how competely useless it is to try and describe this thing. I had no way of knowing anything about it because it was beyond language, or any sensory input. I heard it without ears, I saw it without eyes, I felt it without a body, I was surrounded by it, but I was IT, and IT was me, I knew it without mind or brain, But it was not a thing, it wasn't anything, it was beyond thingness. There were no qualities at all, yet it had every quality and more.

But while floating towards it, imagery of all types flashed by, like if I was on a roller coaster and there were things in the air and i'm zooming by them. they were faces, memories, ideas, history, science, theology, women, monsters, aliens, I could not keep track. all of them were distracting and made it hard to focus on the light, But I knew i must somehow.

I should also say, that at this point, I was no longer in contact with my body. I had completely dissolved and the last connection I felt was thru my very core, somewhere deep in my chest, although it also felt like the middle of my head. I should say that the concept of body towards the end of my dissolving seized to make any sense. I had no body, and the last few strands that held me to this world just was gone. So how I was able to have any sensory input or conscious memory is beyond me. And as i experienced these phenomenons, I knew it was not my brain, nor my senses that comprehended, but something else. I did not know what. Separating from self felt like a droplet of water separating from the faucet, it was slow at first, then BAM, the tension breaks and I was gone. I could also distinctly remember what it felt like to be born from my mother. the same sensation. And as my body dissolved I distinctly remember the memory of my cells splitting in reverse. It felt like I was going backwards in time in hyper rewind, my cells merged with one another in the same way they had split in the first place, and in rapid succession, I was down to the last two cells, and they too, merged and I was only one cell, then poof, nothing at all.

at some point I realized that I was now going away from it, and I thought, oh, rebirth, and felt disappointed, that I did not get to merge with it completely. As I began, I suppose I'll call it descent, I felt my body start to reform. Molecule by molecule, it was peaceful and slow, I almost savored it's return and the sensation of buzzing. But at some point, my hand brushed against something, I grabbed it, it was a root underwater. I followed the root and pulled myself to shore. I don't think I was unconscious for more than a minute because of the distance I floated down stream, but it felt like a hundred years. I immediately coughed up a lungful of water, and could not move from the intense cramping of my muscles. I lay there for a while, then crawled back upstream along the bank till friends saw me.

I can't stress enough that trying to put words to the experience is totally useless. because it's not at all what the experience was like. I'm trying to find examples in my known world to try and use similies and metaphors to describe something that is not like that at all. I'm sure if you had experienced it yourself, you would feel the same way. I would hate for anyone to pick at the examples I use to try and make a point one way or another. Because it's not at all like I'm describing it. I'm really at a loss for words. The best way is to draw a picture of it, but I do not have enough tools in the universe to draw such a thing, plus it existed in such a rainbow hued geometric folding and unfolding multi dimension, that any attempt at recreating it would fall far short. One thing I saw in life that most reminded me of the thing was the inside tile work of a Muslim mosque. The intricate interlaced tile work surrounding you on all sides, so much so that if you blurred your eyes, you would not see the walls, but only be swallowed up by the interlaced tiles. And the patterns were not only on the walls, but extended out in all directions simultaneously, like being a molecule on the inside of a crystalline structure. Every where you look was rainbow hued interconnectedness, I knew intrinsically that the material wa the material of all things, it was the building block of all things. I remember thinking that it looked liked the double helix of the DNA but in all directions thru all dimensions.

Again, I'm sure at this point, you the reader, if you had not seen it yourself, is saying to yourself, this guy is so far off his rocker. And that's why I never tell anyone about it, because it's useless, pointless, you'll all see it one day. No one is spared it's presence, no matter what your faith, no matter what your life path, when you die, you'll see it, as clearly as you see the sun rise and set. Of course I can't be sure of that either, because I can only say that i saw it, and the intrinsic feeling is that it was the source. But I have no idea what that means either.

I have been able to recreate the experience on several occasions with the help of Shamans and meditation. And I have read some descriptions of it that is fairly accurate. The Tibetan book of the dead is one of them. It was like the story of three blind men feeling up an elephant, each saying something different, feels like a snake, a banana leaf, a great big wall, all were describing the same thing, but no one is right, and yet they are alright. I will always be able to tell when someone is describing what I saw even though their words may be so different from mine. I will always know they saw it too.

Hi buddhawarrior,

Let me share a little bit about mine.

It happened summer 1980; I was 22 and a militant atheist. I bounced around as agnostic till becoming a full blown atheist with an attitude. To cut to the chase, I drank some polluted water by an accident while at work. I developed cholera within 24 hours by 72 hours later; I was real sick and like you denied the need for help offered by others. A day or so later, I lost pretty much almost all body fluids and went into shock. I passed away in a bedroom in a duplex in Tucson AZ, alone and was found 4 hours later by a neighbor checking in on me.

I remember taking my last breath and realized I had died but still lived. I lost my atheism right then. I floated above my body for a bit. It was wonderful. No more excruciating adnominal pain, fever, vomiting, diarrhea. I was at great peace. Then zoom, I went through the ceiling, saw the roof and swamp cooler for a brief millisecond, kids playing in the street and neighbors back yards. Then I enter a black void. It was cool and refreshing. I was heading toward a light growing larger in the distance.

I heard incredible music, choir singing, myriads of voices singing and proclaiming the greatness of God. Revealing things about God that only in the bible and no other book verified and please note that I did not know the bible at that time, just enough to combat Christians. I felt at peace, and had no fear floating through that void. I begin sensing a voice speaking to me by means of thought. Reminding me of things I had done and went through. In a flash, I remembered being a kid, or other things. I felt a great sense of love coming directly from the light as I neared it. If I would have returned at that moment back to the mortal realm, my testimony would be quite different.

Do you want to hear more buddhawarrior?

My experience lasted longer than yours. Let me know if you desire to hear more or not…
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So BW. I would love to hear about your NDE. I have bit spoken to too many people about it and always wonder how it came about for others and what they take away from it. Did you acquire any abilities afterwards? Did it shift your believes, ethics, etc?

Cheers

buddhawarrior wrote:So BW. I would love to hear about your NDE. I have bit spoken to too many people about it and always wonder how it came about for others and what they take away from it. Did you acquire any abilities afterwards? Did it shift your believes, ethics, etc?

Cheers

Okay a bit more...

As I headed toward the light I saw it illuminating a huge rock suspended in space and upon it was a person wearing a hooded robe. The light was coming from this person. It was beautiful light, so many shades of life brilliant colors that we cannot see in with mortal eye. I floated fast but it seemed slow motion as well. This being was sitting upon a seat that jutted out from the back wall of this rock. He stood up – light more intense. I landed feet first upon the rock and the being walked down some stone hewn steps toward me. He stood a few feet from me and I feel down like a heavy sack of wheat on a threshing floor. Someone touched my shoulder and picked me up with a gentle force standing me erect again facing a male being in a beautiful robe. His hood covered his face, I could not see, his face but his eyes were felt.

A lot of things happened in a instant that would take too long to explain here now, I knew this person was Jesus Christ. He had the marks of trauma on wrist, hands, and feet as that is all I could see. Parts of a bread protruded from the opening of the hood and it look like someone yanked small batches out from his face. I felt intense love coming from this Him but it was not the love of a homecoming, or acceptance as I thought I first felt while traveling through the void. His love was showing me clearly how I abused, neglected, mocked, spat upon, manipulated His great love at various points in my life. I could not hide – nor say – wait a minute – I was dealt a bad hand in life - it was so and so fault.

You see, buddhawarrior, the love so many persons feel while traveling in the void is actually God’s love judging them soon to be proving to them how they exploited and abused God’s love. Like I said, if I were to have come back sooner, my testimony would be like yours or others. Broad is the way that leads to destruction and many find it is what Jesus says in the bible.

I was not around to put Jesus on trial, nor around to mock him, drive the nails, or yank out parts of his beard but I did so to him by my treatment of others in that symbolic sense. God shown me how good he was to me, how he gives life and takes not it away, how as an eternal being, knowing him now as I do, how just, righteous, perfect he is in all his ways, I would exploit that and pit his own character traits against him in order to try trip him up and game his system: Like proverbs says – as a dog returns to his vomit so a fool returns to his folly is really true. As the principle found in Isaiah 26:10 states, a certain kind of person will not enter into the upright land of heaven because they will seek to subvert it to corruption.

God’s love judges most thoroughly. To see the real sin is within your own self is an awakening I pray that anyone reading this avoids. To see how (back then) I rejected all of the ways God spoke to me to gain my attention, in dreams, miraculously avoiding several life threatening cars accidents, having good godly parents, observing the wonders of creation, by pesky Christians witnessing to me. How God provided food, shelter, education, friends, family and what did I do with it all? Exploited it, abused it, and manipulated it all for some worthless self centered temporal advantage all well reasoned and self justified too.

Now in eternity I would do the same in my fallen state (back then), why? - Because I rejected the seal of the Holy Spirit in and over my life (Eph 1:13). God’s love judged and proved to me, as it does others, someone who would corrupt heaven by continuing the same course. God will not allow this and that part was frightening, in fact more so than the rest of what happened to me, standing before God in the judgment of love proving beyond all doubt that a person only seeks to game that love for ones selfish advantage. Due to God’s great just justice, he will not annihilate you into non-being. No that is against his life giving nature; instead you are rejected and sentenced to face eternal banishment to where what you love more than all uncovers you.

God’s love will not cure you in the afterlife as some people erroneously contend, it rejects you because you had chosen to reject it and demand it bow to one’s personal whims and ideas. How you lie, fib, steal, stole in life, how you lust, or crave others possession, how you connived, plotted, mocked, ridicule, bad thoughts, etc and etc will remain in an unsealed person in the afterlife for that is what they love to serve and sold themselves too. God repays a person according to what they have done. No, God’s love will not change an person in the afterlife to goodness, it is still viewed by the person as something to take advantage of. Only in this life is there a second chance. You learn things like this standing before the Lord of Glory.

The Lord spoke to me by thought. Told me I would return (to face him) but first needed to see a particular place for his glory, not mine. I was told to say his name and title when I felt overwhelmed. I was lifted up by a force and sent through a door and into a tunnel like vortex. I heard screams, cries, laughter, saw strange faces and things in the spinning dark green vortex and approaching another light. I reached that light and fell briefly through the sky landing with a thud on the ground.

From a house on a hill, people came to meet me, happy they were - greeting me as some long lost soul. Many appeared as people I had known who had died. I felt a sense of love but it was unlike the love I felt when all this began. It was wishy washy and phony. Rather sickly. The people’s eyes had a yellow dint to them. Then they changed into hideous creatures wanting to tear me up. Those were not long lost relatives that first meet me, by ugly vile beings giving the illusions of people I had known. I recalled the need to say his name – Jesus Christ and did so repeatedly while in that place. At the sound of the name – these beings could not latch onto me.

Then one motioned to me to follow and we walked a short way to the end of the horizon. It stuck its hands into the sky and rent it as one would clothe exposing the land outside. It stepped out of the place where we were at, stood motioning to me to follow it. I did, and stepped out into the vestiges of a bottomless pit. It was much like a spiral stair case with an opening in the middle, It was huge and extremely hot. In the walls and what I stepped out of were cells, cubes about 10 by 10 feet or 14 by 14 hard to tell in a place like that. Inside these cells were people alone, living out what they had sown in life in various degrees.

The only company they had were foul creatures giving illusions of things and people. When inside the cube – imagine the Hollow Deck of Star Trek the Next Generation for each person. Imagine various bad dreams and nightmares but never being able to wake up. Some of the cell walls were like spider web or white tile line in a translucent fleshly color gelatin like walls. Sort like what you described, buddhawarrior,

The real person was being exposed for who and what they really are. God was not there torturing anyone, Demonic beings were but most often it was the person’s own desires that tormented and uncovering the real them. There were no children there or certain kinds of developmental disabilities persons. I am not going to go into too much detail any further than this. After awhile, the Lord came for me, picked me up and carried me out of that place. I stood before him again upon that Rock. He told many many things and only in the Holy Bible I have found anything at all he revealed to me. It’s all there. He bid me to go back and I did.

I reentered my body and all the pain hit me and I could not breathe. My neighbor was dragging me to his truck. I was taken to the hospital. They could not at first draw blood due to being thick like syrup. I was cold, arms and legs colder than ice I was rehydrated by a nurse squeezing IV solution into me. My heart beat was erratic. Blood pressure too. I am not sure how long I was under treatment but it must have been about 24 hours before I recovered enough to be released as I returned home in the early evening. I remember sitting in a bean bag chair saying to myself – if I tell anybody what happened they will think I am nuts. So I kept it secret for a few years afterwards. Who would believe?

I suffered PTSD for a time but not so much at seeing the pit but rather from standing before God's judgment. Shortly afterwards, I wrote down in jotted notes what happened and I remember it still like it was yesterday. I wrote my book based on those notes. That night, I prayed to Jesus and surrender my life to his will. I had to become born again and sealed by the Holy Spirit in this Life. It will not happen in the next.

In this was great grace shown me. I do not feel at all like I deserved to come back to this mortal plain and be granted this second chance but I am grateful and humbled by it nevertheless. So in later years, the Lord led me to churches to be healed up, mended, trained, so that now I go about His heavenly business on earth now. The only answers to what happened to me are found in the bible and nowhere else. What I saw and experienced are only in those pages, as well as what I learned during it. And yes, People laugh, scoff, and mock when you tell them but so what - you can only do what you can do and go on.

What you describe in your experience was only a few minutes, You had not the time to ascertain or digest the reality of what you saw. When you came back, the light glistening in the water and grabbing the root helped you. The glistening light is Christ Jesus, that root is your abuse of God’s good love, you must let go of that, come to the surface, be healed by being born again into the Kingdom of God as Jesus says too – not a shaman, not Buddha , but as Jesus says too (John 3:16) or those faces you saw in the darkness, amusing at first to marvel at will not be so, if you chance arrive there again. Hell is a deceptive place. You saw a mere moment of eternity and you were permitted grace to return. Stop running from Jesus Christ. Look again at the faces and the tile again – remember… .

The love you felt was getting ready to judge you buddhawarrior and like so many others that come back report all is well but certain things are revealing where one had really been. You were only out for a mere moment.
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If you are interested in a riviting book written by an atheist Surgeon who converted to Christian as a direct result of ressusitating patients , youll like this : . Get a good used copy for $.01 !!!
The Surgeon started recording peoples actual experiences as they would slip into a flatlined state then come out of it then go back in.

CallMeDave wrote:If you are interested in a riviting book written by an atheist Surgeon who converted to Christian as a direct result of ressusitating patients , youll like this : . Get a good used copy for $.01 !!!
The Surgeon started recording peoples actual experiences as they would slip into a flatlined state then come out of it then go back in.

Sounds like something from the film Flatliners. Thanks for the link - will check it out.

Silvertusk.