Evidence for God from Science

My home state is currently the site of a massive controversy regarding schools, suicides, and anti-gay bullying (and the new rules pertaining to anti-gay bullying). I want some of your thoughts.

Here's a brief summary: One of the larger school districts in the country, and home to a few large evangelical Christian groups (and Michelle Bachmann), passed some unique legislation. Thanks to great pressure from these Christian groups, the Board passed a mandate banning homosexuality from being discussed in a positive light in the classroom and that teachers were not allowed to express positive views or aid to students based on homosexuality. The measure coincided with an incredible rash of student suicides in the district, highlighted by an alarming number of suicides by homosexual or "presumed" homosexual students, many of whom had complained to the school board and administrators regarding teachers no longer being able to stop bullies who targeted gay students. Teachers and their union expressed a great deal of concern over the measure, mostly for its vagueness and their inability to find a single interpretation of what it limited exactly.

Some parents and students sued the school board, leading to a new policy replacing the old one. Now, teachers are required to remain "neutral" on all controversial topics (though obviously that's a masked term for "the topic of homosexuality"). In addition, bullying is protected under the policy if based on religious views or faith. Now, everyone is displeased. Teachers are even more confused and worried about violating the policy. The evangelicals claim that this means the school board is promoting homosexual behavior and conceding to the gays. The gay community claims that the new policy is the same as the old one; teachers simply can't interfere with the bullying of gays, period. The lawsuit is still ongoing.

I think the situation is tragic. The school board should be disgusted. They violate everything a school should stand for. That is, the safe and positive educational environment for ALL students. Bullying is wrong and hurtful and evil (especially within the Christian faith). I don't care what your stance on homosexuality is, there is no excuse for taunting, antagonizing, tormenting, and ultimately contributing to the anguish of children.

Here's a nice article. It's long and obviously slanted against the school board's policies, but rightfully so in my opinion.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/ne ... 202?page=5

The most shocking bits come from the evangelical groups in the article, who claim that the high suicide rate of homosexuals is simply punishment for the students choosing that lifestyle. They also claim that the schools are trying to coerce children to be gay and that being gay is something that the schools should try to eradicate.

so, I don't want this to be an argument over whether homosexuality is right/wrong, whether gays should marry, etc. I want to discuss the school board policies and the two opposing sides of the argument.

Ivellious wrote: the Board passed a mandate banning homosexuality from being discussed in a positive light in the classroom and that teachers were not allowed to express positive views or aid to students based on homosexuality.

Regardless of whether it is discussed in a "positive" or "negative" light I'm not sure why teachers are dicussing anything regarding anyone's sexuality. It's not a subject that should be talked about period.

Ivellious wrote:The measure coincided with an incredible rash of student suicides in the district, highlighted by an alarming number of suicides by homosexual or "presumed" homosexual students, many of whom had complained to the school board and administrators regarding teachers no longer being able to stop bullies who targeted gay students. Teachers and their union expressed a great deal of concern over the measure, mostly for its vagueness and their inability to find a single interpretation of what it limited exactly.

The reason for the bullying is irrelevant.

Ivellious wrote:Now, teachers are required to remain "neutral" on all controversial topics (though obviously that's a masked term for "the topic of homosexuality"). In addition, bullying is protected under the policy if based on religious views or faith. Now, everyone is displeased. Teachers are even more confused and worried about violating the policy. The evangelicals claim that this means the school board is promoting homosexual behavior and conceding to the gays. The gay community claims that the new policy is the same as the old one; teachers simply can't interfere with the bullying of gays, period. The lawsuit is still ongoing.

Bullying is protected "if based on religious views or faith". So you can bully someone based off religious views or faith? Basically "this law" is a blatant violation of the constitution if it is exactly how you worded it.

Ivellious wrote:I think the situation is tragic. The school board should be disgusted. They violate everything a school should stand for. That is, the safe and positive educational environment for ALL students. Bullying is wrong and hurtful and evil (especially within the Christian faith). I don't care what your stance on homosexuality is, there is no excuse for taunting, antagonizing, tormenting, and ultimately contributing to the anguish of children.

I don't know what Christian faith you are referencing here, but it is obviously in the mold of the WBC. I do not believe a soul can contain both the holy spirit and so much hate at the same time, yes the above scenario is terrible but if the whole point of this post is a stab at Christianity it is a gross misrepresentation.

Ivellious wrote: the two opposing sides of the argument.

There is no argument, this is obviously both against the law and against the moral code God has given us.

I made the post to see if anyone would try to justify it. This isn't a blanket attack on Christianity. I would rather openly attack the evangelical groups making these advances and advocating the bullying of schoolchildren.

I made an error on the religious view thing...Originally that law was passed in Michigan, under the justification that Christians or Muslims or whoever that speak out against gays are allowed to under the freedom of speech. The school board in Minnesota that this post is based off of was pressured to adopt a similar law by the evangelical groups involved but they have not voted on it because of the lawsuit.

I agree that these Christian groups aren't really Christian (ironic then that Michelle Bachmann was a leading member of one of these churches, and she advocates for her "Christian values"). But I just wanted to put this info out there to get a response from any perspective.

As far as why banning the talk about homosexuality is important...The thing was that teachers were warned about referencing homosexuality at all, even indirectly. For instance, English teachers were scared about teaching books written by gay authors, social studies teachers were unable to discuss current events such as the repeal of "don't Ask, Don't Tell," and most importantly, no teacher could intervene when a student was bullied for being gay, as that would give the impression that the school was supporting gay people.

I made the post to see if anyone would try to justify it. This isn't a blanket attack on Christianity. I would rather openly attack the evangelical groups making these advances and advocating the bullying of schoolchildren.

I would doubt anyone here would justify it, we are to hate the sin not the sinner.
This is very un-Christian like behaviour.

Dan

Ivellious wrote:I made an error on the religious view thing...Originally that law was passed in Michigan, under the justification that Christians or Muslims or whoever that speak out against gays are allowed to under the freedom of speech. The school board in Minnesota that this post is based off of was pressured to adopt a similar law by the evangelical groups involved but they have not voted on it because of the lawsuit.

I agree that these Christian groups aren't really Christian (ironic then that Michelle Bachmann was a leading member of one of these churches, and she advocates for her "Christian values"). But I just wanted to put this info out there to get a response from any perspective.

I agree that under freedom of speech you can speak out against anyone's beliefs or lifestyle. HOWEVER, when it becomes obvious harassment ( bullying included) it is no longer a freedom of speech issue. That's my perspective.

well i am against bullying in genral (victim of bullying myself) and find no justifyable reason for it hateful that is all there is to it. however i know many christain and myself include never attack ,bully or harass gaysor any other group of people for that matter , so i would like to meet these so called christains who say that these sucides are a good things

It's generally not evangelical Christians who do the bullying either may I add,,,,

'The school board should be disgusted. They violate everything a school should stand for. That is, the safe and positive educational environment for ALL students. Bullying is wrong and hurtful and evil (especially within the Christian faith). I don't care what your stance on homosexuality is, there is no excuse for taunting, antagonizing, tormenting, and ultimately contributing to the anguish of children'

REPLY: It is correct what you say ; but that should not nullify exposing the enormous dangers behind the homosexual lifestyle such as the national STD epidemic where 61 percent of ALL STD's come from male homosexuals with many hundreds of thousands having lost their life prematurely to HIV/AIDS since the epidemic began. Our Students need educating on ALL ASPECTS of things and especially those things which have proven to destroy people , and that info needs to come from our school systems. Then, they need to go one step further : Encourage those struggling with Homosexuality to attend counselling to exit the dangerous lifestyle and make it free or very affordable. Supporting or enabling homosexuality especially at the child level is doing them a great disservice . Being tolerant of dangerous perverted lifestyles (to a fault) is nothing short of being apathetic to the welfare of people. And at the same time, those involved need to be protected from physical harm by others. Heres how i sum it all up : LOVE = understanding yet non-compliance to dangerous lifestyles by incorporating sound measures for healing and welfare.