Evidence for God from Science

A new Christian that is just a bit skeptical on a few things

Like what?

Ukranianlys wrote:A new Christian that is just a bit skeptical on a few things

Yeah me too. I am skeptical of the ideas that:

• the universe and physical laws just popped in from nowhere
• morals really are just a matter of personal tastes and "right" and "wrong" just imaginary
• "the Self" does not really exist being an illusion and determined by chemicals (along with free will, justice, love and everything that goes with the existence of a true self and ability to make decisions)
• truth doesn't really exist or matter
• Jesus just "swooned" on the cross, had a twin brother, just a myth or some other nonsense
• life is meaningless and that it does not matter whether one lives like a Hitler or Stalin vs Mother Teresa or a saint.

I'm skeptical of all those things.

Kurieuo - have you ever considered Christianity? It might answer some of your skeptisms

Ukranianlys wrote:A new Christian that is just a bit skeptical on a few things

Welcome to the boards

Kurieuo wrote:

Ukranianlys wrote:A new Christian that is just a bit skeptical on a few things

Yeah me too. I am skeptical of the ideas that:

• the universe and physical laws just popped in from nowhere
• morals really are just a matter of personal tastes and "right" and "wrong" just imaginary
• "the Self" does not really exist being an illusion and determined by chemicals (along with free will, justice, love and everything that goes with the existence of a true self and ability to make decisions)
• truth doesn't really exist or matter
• Jesus just "swooned" on the cross, had a twin brother, just a myth or some other nonsense
• life is meaningless and that it does not matter whether one lives like a Hitler or Stalin vs Mother Teresa or a saint.

I'm skeptical of all those things.

Im curious if you have taken the time and effort to get your inquiries satisfied (?) . I find too many Skeptics and Critics dont want to go investigating and would rather stay in a limbo state possibly for personal ulterior motives. In any case, this link will serve to answer just about any genuine inquiry One could possibly have : http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html

I must admit that I am very skeptical of atheism.

jlay wrote:I must admit that I am very skeptical of atheism.

Having come out of a good 10 adult years of atheism...I am no longer skeptical of it, but, appauled with myself for how fooled i was.

CallMeDave wrote:

jlay wrote:I must admit that I am very skeptical of atheism.

Having come out of a good 10 adult years of atheism...I am no longer skeptical of it, but, appauled with myself for how fooled i was.

Well seeing as this thread is going no where... Would you care to share what you found so appealing / convincing about atheism at the time.
What made you change your views?
Were you aware of alternative theories but found them unconvincing?

Silvertusk wrote:Kurieuo - have you ever considered Christianity? It might answer some of your skeptisms

It answers too many of life's questions and many things we tend to innately hold as true. That's got to make it wrong doesn't it? Too much of an elephant perhaps.

Stu wrote:

CallMeDave wrote:

jlay wrote:I must admit that I am very skeptical of atheism.

Having come out of a good 10 adult years of atheism...I am no longer skeptical of it, but, appauled with myself for how fooled i was.

Well seeing as this thread is going no where... Would you care to share what you found so appealing / convincing about atheism at the time.
What made you change your views?
Were you aware of alternative theories but found them unconvincing?

Appealing about atheism , at the time :

1. Nearly all my friends were atheists so i had much commaraderie .
2. If there were no binding absolute moral laws to live by, then it offered great freedom of lifestyle choices (which i capitalized on) .
3. No one was in ultimate authority over me.
4. I wasnt owned by anyone higher than self which led to great autonomy.
5. I was at the center of the Universe, figuratively speaking .
6. All my Teachers in school (whom i greatly respected and enjoyed) taught atheistic ideologies / worldview .
7. As Evolutionist Julian Huxley said :' Having no personal Creator (viz.God) , coincided with my sexual mores' .

Convincing about atheism , at the time :

1. I looked upon my Teachers and School Text Books as virtually infallable and thus a very reliable truth source , so i accepted all they taught without question .
2. Atheisms idelogies and constructs... from a worldview and from sociology.... best fit in with my daily lifestyle choices and philosophies for having fun.

What made me change my views about atheism :

1. Some atheistic ideologies were impossible to live out , truthfully and without being hypocritical (ie: moral relativism) .
2. I became aware that the atheistic ideologies as represented by our American Culture , were destructive and dangerous to people....and this concerned me as i was getting deeper into them.
3. I found it took an incredible amount of faith to believe in atheistic origins of the universe and first life on earth.
4. I found that an atheistic material universe (materialism) is not capable of things like reason, logic, truth, love, freewill .
5. I found there are no logical atheistic explanations for the 150+ razor precise Life Enabling Constants and Physics Constants (anthropics) which have been scientifically discovered and are measurable to (in some cases) a 120th decimal point critical tolerance otherwise our Cosmos is not here and niether are we. I could accept a few by coincidental chance, but not over 150 which are all dependent on each other.
6. I discovered in myself that I wanted to follow the truth regardless of where it led, instead of patronizing myself into following something I had no more confidence in.
7. I heavily investigated Theism from a scientific standpoint including the remarkable design and engineering of things ...and concluded that it is absurd to think it all just happened by chance without a shred of purpose or reason.
8. I heavily investigated Christianity as well as all other major world religions, and discovered the New Testament of the Bible to offer more accurate historical evidences for Christ , his ressurection, and what he claimed about himself....that it was very compelling. I read about THE worlds most famous expert on Court of Law evidential techniques who put the New Testament to a very stringent test, who traded in his agnosticism to become a Christ Follower based purely on the scientific and historical evidences ...and I found this very compelling.
9. I discovered that modern scientific discoveries are proving the Bible correct and are leading to a personal theistic Creator which the Bible describes in great detail.

How was it for you ?

CallMeDave wrote:

jlay wrote:I must admit that I am very skeptical of atheism.

Having come out of a good 10 adult years of atheism...I am no longer skeptical of it, but, appauled with myself for how fooled i was.

Dave may I ask how you went from 10 years of atheism to being a devout christian and YEC?

Murray wrote:

CallMeDave wrote:

jlay wrote:I must admit that I am very skeptical of atheism.

Having come out of a good 10 adult years of atheism...I am no longer skeptical of it, but, appauled with myself for how fooled i was.

Dave may I ask how you went from 10 years of atheism to being a devout christian and YEC?

Yes. Here is my testimony for going from atheism to Follower of Christ : http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 32&t=37020

How I became a YEC , was from studying both the YEC and OEC views and comparing them to Genesis 1 and 2 . In addition, I looked at the present scientific evidence for a Young Earth and found it compelling . I personally concluded that a YEC viewpoint is valid and that God created everything in 6 literal 24 hour periods, while being very troubled at the theological implications for long ages between Days .

Brother Dave, from a fellow YECer, get ready for the fur to fly.

CallMeDave wrote:How was it for you ?

Quite dissimilar actually

I wasn't raised in a religious household per se, but as children we had been exposed to the Christian teachings and South African society was fairly Christian orientated back then; so I guess the 'idea' of God was always there, but it just didn't feature much in our lives (the same for many I would suspect).

That trend continued right up until I entered the heavy metal scene. I was never a satanist or anything of that sort, I always found the idea somewhat.. disagreeable; I mean yeah I was rebelling and didn't have time for God, but at the same time following the devil just seemed a little stupid to be honest -- why follow a loser so to speak, right? Having said that, I was deep into the scene and did walk a fine line, reading books on the occult, had pentagrams on my wall and other darker moments.

Like many I reached a low point, and with the arrogance and ego of youth behind me, I found peace in accepting God into my life; I just let it all go. It was also a lot easier at the time as my dad was born again so Christianity played a large part in our lives.

Nothing's ever simple though right and when my dad passed away, I was angry, angry in general but also at God, as his was a sudden massive heart attack, no warning or anything, he was just gone. It hit me hard.

It took me quite a while to come to terms with the fact that my dad's heart simply gave in; our bodies are fragile and inevitably the wear and tear takes it's toll. Telling me that at the time wouldn't have helped much.
The damage was done though and my relationship with God had deteriorated and life simply continued on without him.

Evolution is something that never really featured much in my life, but at that particular time it caught my attention. It's a very powerful and pervasive concept. It's everywhere, textbooks, Nat Geo, Animal Planet, your university professors and the wider media. Then you have the figureheads like Dawkins, so confident, so sure, so utterly convinced of it's truth, that alone is almost enough to convince you of it's veracity. The thread of secular ideology runs deep in modern society.

That combined with my extended separation, I began questioning the reality of God. This persisted for a substantial period of time and by then there was a complete disconnect from God.

I began seeking my own answers in science. It was a really slow process though pulling out my brothers old university books, working my way up from the basic building blocks of life; the atom, DNA, RNA, proteins, cell structure, etc. moving onto the likes of Michael Behe's "irreducible complexity" argument, as well as physics, cosmology, etc. It took a while but slowly a picture started forming as I pieced together the various bits and pieces from a wide variety of the sciences.

Spiritually I consider myself damaged goods so for me science really did save my soul. Thanks to my rather chequered past I've got a couple of hangups I need to work through, so I'm still in the process of rebuilding my realtionship with God, but I know what I'm aiming for.

Anyway thought I'd join a forum like this one and learn a few things from my fellow brethren.
Right now I'm stuck in the middle of OEC and YEC, leaning toward YEC, but there are some questions that persist for me. The geologic column being one of them.

And that's me in a nutshell