Evidence for God from Science

Bill: "God must exist."
Jill: "How do you know."
Bill: "Because the Bible says so."
Jill: "Why should I believe the Bible?"
Bill: "Because the Bible was written by God."

Is what Bill says all we really need to know on the subject of God's existence? After all, "Jesus loves me this I know for the Bible tells me so" goes the song.

It's good enough for me now that I know what I know, but might not be good enough for someone else who knows nothing of God's existence.

Dan

If you are trying to win an argument or convince somebody with that logic, you're gonna lose. That's circular reasoning.

1. The Bible is God's word.
2. God's word is true.
3. It is true because the Bible says so.

In a logical argument, you can't say that the Bible proves itself without anything else. That would be fallacious.

Yeah Daniel220 makes a good point, for those who have additional knowledge on the subject that could suffice; but as for engaging in a straight up debate it's tricky ground.

But it's circularity doesn't make it false.

Like you said, it's all I need to know, because of what I do know. But for those who don't know...well, it is foolishness. 1 Cor. 1:18

You're right, jlay, it doesn't make it false. But good luck convincing anyone who is not already a believer by using circular reasoning. Just saying that a book says it is right does not make for a very good argument by itself.

This argument would work just as effectively if you substituted the Koran or any other religious text that talks about a deity in its place. I wouldn't rely on it much.

Bill: "God must exist."
Jill: "How do you know."
Bill: "Because the [Koran] says so."
Jill: "Why should I believe the [Koran]?"
Bill: "Because the [Koran] was written by God."

OOOO my turn.

Bill: "Evolution must exist."
Jill: "How do you know."
Bill: "Because the science book says so."
Jill: "Why should I believe the science book?"
Bill: "Because the science book was written by scientists."

Danieltwotwenty wrote:OOOO my turn.

Bill: "Evolution must exist."
Jill: "How do you know."
Bill: "Because the science book says so."
Jill: "Why should I believe the science book?"
Bill: "Because the science book was written by scientists."

Very nice

Danieltwotwenty wrote:It's good enough for me now that I know what I know, but might not be good enough for someone else who knows nothing of God's existence.

Dan

What do you know that makes that good enough?

Tina wrote:

Danieltwotwenty wrote:It's good enough for me now that I know what I know, but might not be good enough for someone else who knows nothing of God's existence.

Dan

What do you know that makes that good enough?

Thats a pretty big subject Tina, I don't know if I could cover everything but to be short there is plenty of evidence out there if you are willing to do a lot of reading, for example you could start on the mainsite and progress from there or there are many other sites available also for study.

Dan

ultimate777 wrote:Bill: "God must exist."
Jill: "How do you know."
Bill: "Because the Bible says so."
Jill: "Why should I believe the Bible?"
Bill: "Because the Bible was written by God."

Is what Bill says all we really need to know on the subject of God's existence? After all, "Jesus loves me this I know for the Bible tells me so" goes the song.

This argument wouldn't stand by itself as a formal argument. You could try to prove the statements there, however, and reword it so that it isn't fallacious. Off the top of my head-

If the Bible was written by God, then God exists.
The Bible was written by God
Therefore, God exists.

There the argument is solid, obviously you would need to prove the second premise. You could reword it so that you have less burden as far as how much you have to prove.

ultimate777 wrote:Bill: "God must exist."
Jill: "How do you know."
Bill: "Because the Bible says so."
Jill: "Why should I believe the Bible?"
Bill: "Because the Bible was written by God."

Ivellious wrote:If you are trying to win an argument or convince somebody with that logic, you're gonna lose. That's circular reasoning.

1. The Bible is God's word.
2. God's word is true.
3. It is true because the Bible says so.

In a logical argument, you can't say that the Bible proves itself without anything else. That would be fallacious.

Ive is right, it is circular. It is circular because it presumes God exists to prove God exists. For example, God must exist because the Bible was written by God. And how do you know the Bible was written by God? Because God exists... (or something akin to that).

I also cringe at the thought of Christians who would leave it at the "Jesus loves me this I know for the Bible tells me so" song. Especially in those moments of life where one is feeling no love.

narnia4 wrote:This argument wouldn't stand by itself as a formal argument. You could try to prove the statements there, however, and reword it so that it isn't fallacious. Off the top of my head-

If the Bible was written by God, then God exists.
The Bible was written by God
Therefore, God exists.

There the argument is solid, obviously you would need to prove the second premise. You could reword it so that you have less burden as far as how much you have to prove.

This is formulated better, and the second really is a big task to try to prove to others. All it takes is for a non-Christian to make a judgement that it has some errors to disregard it entirely. And given our judgements are influenced by our existing beliefs and experiences, one is in a hard spot if they are going to try convince a non-Christian that God is real because the Bible was written by God. Furthermore, there probably isn't any one argument that will convince an Atheist that God is real.

But knowing reasons and having defenses will make one more secure in their beliefs which will also be more palatable to others who may not initially agree or are without an opinion.

Danieltwotwenty wrote:OOOO my turn.

Bill: "Evolution must exist."
Jill: "How do you know."
Bill: "Because the science book says so."
Jill: "Why should I believe the science book?"
Bill: "Because the science book was written by scientists."

Me too! Me too!

Bill: "The geologic column proves the earth is billions of years old."
Jill: "How do you know."
Bill: "Because the fossil record dates the geologic column."
Jill: "Why should I believe the fossil record?"
Bill: "Because the geologic column dates the fossil record."

Stu wrote:

Danieltwotwenty wrote:OOOO my turn.

Bill: "Evolution must exist."
Jill: "How do you know."
Bill: "Because the science book says so."
Jill: "Why should I believe the science book?"
Bill: "Because the science book was written by scientists."

Me too! Me too!

Bill: "The geologic column proves the earth is billions of years old."
Jill: "How do you know."
Bill: "Because the fossil record dates the geologic column."
Jill: "Why should I believe the fossil record?"
Bill: "Because the geologic column dates the fossil record."