Why we are here

[Tina]

This idea has been churning in my head for a very long time. I keep wondering why we exist ( and I know there are many answers for that ) but I can't help but see us like soldiers... Like GOD is using us to prove a point that He is unbeatable. I mean....none of the terrible things would have happened if He would have stopped it in the beginning. Yes, I know, free will.......but He could have not put that tree there.......if the tree was not there, it wouldn't have happened. So, did the snake tempt us or did GOD? And it's not like we're useful to GOD in any other way. He is the Almighty GOD. He doesn't need help from anyone. I know some say it's cuz He wants a relationship with us, but they also say He was perfectly happy by Himself. And some say that we're here to learn and GOD wanted to be with people that weren't like robots, but when we get to heaven, won't we be like robots? And GOD knew from the very beginning everything that was and is gonna happen........He knew if this all happened, very very many people would end up in Hell.....tortured for all eternity.........wouldn't it be better to not exist at all than to be tortured forever? If He loves us, why would GOD go through with this?

[CallMeDave]

This idea has been churning in my head for a very long time. I keep wondering why we exist ( and I know there are many answers for that ) but I can't help but see us like soldiers... Like GOD is using us to prove a point that He is unbeatable. I mean....none of the terrible things would have happened if He would have stopped it in the beginning. Yes, I know, free will.......but He could have not put that tree there.......if the tree was not there, it wouldn't have happened. So, did the snake tempt us or did GOD? And it's not like we're useful to GOD in any other way. He is the Almighty GOD. He doesn't need help from anyone. I know some say it's cuz He wants a relationship with us, but they also say He was perfectly happy by Himself. And some say that we're here to learn and GOD wanted to be with people that weren't like robots, but when we get to heaven, won't we be like robots? And GOD knew from the very beginning everything that was and is gonna happen........He knew if this all happened, very very many people would end up in Hell.....tortured for all eternity.........wouldn't it be better to not exist at all than to be tortured forever? If He loves us, why would GOD go through with this?

Sooner or later, we all get around to wondering this Tina. Most people start around age 4-7 by asking the typical questions of : Who made all this ? How come all this is here ? Where are we going after we die ? As to your questions above, this site will give you a very good analysis : http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html . Further, the Universe is so incredibly fine tuned for human life with over 150 exxxxtremely precise Life Enabling Constants which must all exist and which most need to work in unison with one another...so....we are here not by chance, but because our incredible personal Creator WANTED us to be here. WHy ? Because he desired a personal relationship with his most prized creation...us. And he hopes we will return the love he has, back to him...just as our earthly Parents hope for the same with us. In short, we are here to enjoy our Creator and enter into a real personal relationship with him . Summarizing the Bible as to our purpose , it is to : 'Rejoice, pray , give thanks to God, grow in knowledge of God, and bear every good fruit' all for Gods glory . Our REAL hope is not this brief lifetime, but FOREVER with God experiencing him and many incredible things he has for us in eternity which will never ever come to an end. This is what God wants for us, and , the ball is now in our court . Wise people gladly return the ball by committing their entire Self to Gods honor, glory, and useage while we are on this Planet. I hope you will too . It starts with a dynamic relationship with God thru his Son Jesus Christ who was sent here to pay for our many sins, and only after accepting this free gift, can we then start to have the type of relationship with God that he desires . If youre willing to do this, then get ready to have your life drastically changed from the inside out as mine was and as millions of others can also attest. Regards.

[Tina]

This idea has been churning in my head for a very long time. I keep wondering why we exist ( and I know there are many answers for that ) but I can't help but see us like soldiers... Like GOD is using us to prove a point that He is unbeatable. I mean....none of the terrible things would have happened if He would have stopped it in the beginning. Yes, I know, free will.......but He could have not put that tree there.......if the tree was not there, it wouldn't have happened. So, did the snake tempt us or did GOD? And it's not like we're useful to GOD in any other way. He is the Almighty GOD. He doesn't need help from anyone. I know some say it's cuz He wants a relationship with us, but they also say He was perfectly happy by Himself. And some say that we're here to learn and GOD wanted to be with people that weren't like robots, but when we get to heaven, won't we be like robots? And GOD knew from the very beginning everything that was and is gonna happen........He knew if this all happened, very very many people would end up in Hell.....tortured for all eternity.........wouldn't it be better to not exist at all than to be tortured forever? If He loves us, why would GOD go through with this?

Sooner or later, we all get around to wondering this Tina. Most people start around age 4-7 by asking the typical questions of : Who made all this ? How come all this is here ? Where are we going after we die ? As to your questions above, this site will give you a very good analysis : http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html . Further, the Universe is so incredibly fine tuned for human life with over 150 exxxxtremely precise Life Enabling Constants which must all exist and which most need to work in unison with one another...so....we are here not by chance, but because our incredible personal Creator WANTED us to be here. WHy ? Because he desired a personal relationship with his most prized creation...us. And he hopes we will return the love he has, back to him...just as our earthly Parents hope for the same with us. In short, we are here to enjoy our Creator and enter into a real personal relationship with him . Summarizing the Bible as to our purpose , it is to : 'Rejoice, pray , give thanks to God, grow in knowledge of God, and bear every good fruit' all for Gods glory . Our REAL hope is not this brief lifetime, but FOREVER with God experiencing him and many incredible things he has for us in eternity which will never ever come to an end. This is what God wants for us, and , the ball is now in our court . Wise people gladly return the ball by committing their entire Self to Gods honor, glory, and useage while we are on this Planet. I hope you will too . It starts with a dynamic relationship with God thru his Son Jesus Christ who was sent here to pay for our many sins, and only after accepting this free gift, can we then start to have the type of relationship with God that he desires . If youre willing to do this, then get ready to have your life drastically changed from the inside out as mine was and as millions of others can also attest. Regards.

I have already done that. I've been a Christian since I was 4 years old. I'm just curious as to why it is all happening THIS way. ...........Idk, I guess I'm searching for some sort of hidden truth behind it all..Thank you, though, for answering

[wrain62]

Almighty Agape and Khesed.
When you think about it
it seems like an oxymoron.
But we all know deep inside
that it truly is superior.
But what of its measure?
It measured through sacrifice
and fear. God limits his own
soveriegnty for us with his word
and sacrificed total mandate of fear
so that we may see it and fulfill
give back what is his.
Otherwise there would not
have been love and thus
there would not have been
true superiority. Without
superiority it all crumbles from
there and God would no longer be
God.

Tell me waht you think.

[Jac3510]

I keep wondering why we exist

Depends on what you mean by this.

If you mean what is the cause of our existence, it is because God put us here. If you mean what is the purpose of our existence, it is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever. If you mean what caused God to create us, then there is no answer, for God is an uncaused cause (if you could point to something that caused God to create, then God would be caused, and would therefore not be the First Cause -- He created absolutely freely). The best we can say is that God created us because He wanted to. He certainly did not need to, and be wary of anyone who suggests He needed to create us to fulfill any "need" of His.

Like GOD is using us to prove a point that He is unbeatable.

History certainly reveals God's sovereignty, but that is not the reason He created. But if God is truly sovereign, should we not expect the unfolding of His creation through time (Creation to Consummation) to demonstrate that?

I mean....none of the terrible things would have happened if He would have stopped it in the beginning.

Yes, the old "problem of evil." Had God not created, then nothing bad would have happened. But then, nothing good would have happened either. There simply would have been nothing, and you can't ask if nothing is better than something, because nothing isn't a thing that can be compared to anything.

, I know, free will.......but He could have not put that tree there.......if the tree was not there, it wouldn't have happened. So, did the snake tempt us or did GOD?

Had He not put the tree there, there would have been no free will. Man had to have a way to choose to obey or disobey. To refuse to give man an option is to refuse to give him a choice, which is to deny Him choice, which is to deny Him a free will. So if you accept that God wanted to create free creatures, you must accept that the tree (or whatever else you would prefer) would have to have been there.

And to answer your question, the snake tempted our first parents. God doesn't tempt anyone to evil. He did, however, provide Adam and Eve with the means of rejecting temptation. They intentionally rebelled. The fault is with them, not God.

And it's not like we're useful to GOD in any other way. He is the Almighty GOD. He doesn't need help from anyone. I know some say it's cuz He wants a relationship with us, but they also say He was perfectly happy by Himself.

Note the word I underlined and strike it out. God doesn't need us in any way at all. He is perfect within Himself. He invites us to share in the joy of His perfection and fellowship and eternal joy and happiness, and that is a matter of His grace and love for us. It is completely for our benefit and none for is.

And some say that we're here to learn and GOD wanted to be with people that weren't like robots, but when we get to heaven, won't we be like robots?

We will not be like robots in heaven. We will be freer in heaven than we are now. "Freedom to sin" is not freedom at all. It is, in fact, bondage to keep us from doing what we truly want, which is the Good.

In heaven, we will experience what Catholic theologians call the beatific vision, which is to say, the vision of God. We will finally see God in all of His goodness, which we cannot now (indeed, which even Adam could not have, but which, I should add, Christ could, given His dual nature). Seeing the perfect Good, the notion of sin--even the most minor sins--will be beyond dispicable.

By way of illustration: I have a two year old daughter. She loves chocolate brownies. Suppose I gave her an old, crummy browny that was stale and bitter. Then, half way into it, suppose I gave her a fresh, hot, moist, sweet chocolate brownie. Which would she prefer? Obviously, the latter. Now tell me, is there any way I could tempt her then with the old stale brownie (that she once enjoyed)? No! Why not? Because she has had better. She has experienced better. Why would she go back? She wouldn't. Indeed, she doesn't.

Just so with the Christian. We have some semblance of any experience with God on earth, and that experience drives us for more, but it is a cloude experience, and we still think that we see good in fulfilling the lusts of the flesh. But once we see True Goodness in all its glory, we will see evil and sin for all it is, and we will be horrified by it.

So will be robots in heaven? Far from it. We will be freer in our humanity than we are even now.

And GOD knew from the very beginning everything that was and is gonna happen........He knew if this all happened, very very many people would end up in Hell.....tortured for all eternity.........wouldn't it be better to not exist at all than to be tortured forever? If He loves us, why would GOD go through with this?

As I said above, as much as we might wish to think otherwise, it is non-sensical to compare non-existence to existence and ask which is better. A is better than B, only if an A and B both exist to be compared to some standard C. So how can you ask if non-existence is better than anything else? The moment you ask if non-existence is better, you've already presumed "it" in some sense "is." It's a meaningless question.

C.S. Lewis righly remarked that the gates of Hell are and will be locked from the inside. Those who will find themselves there will be there precisely they have rejected the good. God, in "sending" them there, is doing a good--He is giving them what they asked for. He is respecting their decision. He is refusing to force Himself upon them. They'll reap the consequences of their decision forever. And that is good and just.

But more, to suggest that their annhilation (either before or after their choice to reject God) would be "better" (whatever that means) is morally problematic, for it assumse that death is better than a low-quality of life. But life, in and of itself, is sacred. A high quality of life is not more sacred than a low quality of life, for the sacredness of humanity is a non-degreed property. Something is either sacred or not. So to destroy the sacred is evil. You are, then, in effect asking God to do what is evil in the name of "mercy." I'm sure you can see why such a position is, at best, rather problematic.

[Gman]

This idea has been churning in my head for a very long time. I keep wondering why we exist ( and I know there are many answers for that ) but I can't help but see us like soldiers... Like GOD is using us to prove a point that He is unbeatable. I mean....none of the terrible things would have happened if He would have stopped it in the beginning. Yes, I know, free will.......but He could have not put that tree there.......if the tree was not there, it wouldn't have happened. So, did the snake tempt us or did GOD? And it's not like we're useful to GOD in any other way. He is the Almighty GOD. He doesn't need help from anyone. I know some say it's cuz He wants a relationship with us, but they also say He was perfectly happy by Himself. And some say that we're here to learn and GOD wanted to be with people that weren't like robots, but when we get to heaven, won't we be like robots? And GOD knew from the very beginning everything that was and is gonna happen........He knew if this all happened, very very many people would end up in Hell.....tortured for all eternity.........wouldn't it be better to not exist at all than to be tortured forever? If He loves us, why would GOD go through with this?

Yes... Short answer.. G-d created us for His glory, or a relationship. It works like a husband and wife relationship where G-d marries his bride through His covenants. Even though His wife goes after other god's He still loves her and pursues her.

In other words.. We are in a love hate relationship... With who? G-d. Hopefully love wins..

More of that answer is locked up here I believe.. http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 22&t=36805

[CallMeDave]

This idea has been churning in my head for a very long time. I keep wondering why we exist ( and I know there are many answers for that ) but I can't help but see us like soldiers... Like GOD is using us to prove a point that He is unbeatable. I mean....none of the terrible things would have happened if He would have stopped it in the beginning. Yes, I know, free will.......but He could have not put that tree there.......if the tree was not there, it wouldn't have happened. So, did the snake tempt us or did GOD? And it's not like we're useful to GOD in any other way. He is the Almighty GOD. He doesn't need help from anyone. I know some say it's cuz He wants a relationship with us, but they also say He was perfectly happy by Himself. And some say that we're here to learn and GOD wanted to be with people that weren't like robots, but when we get to heaven, won't we be like robots? And GOD knew from the very beginning everything that was and is gonna happen........He knew if this all happened, very very many people would end up in Hell.....tortured for all eternity.........wouldn't it be better to not exist at all than to be tortured forever? If He loves us, why would GOD go through with this?

Sooner or later, we all get around to wondering this Tina. Most people start around age 4-7 by asking the typical questions of : Who made all this ? How come all this is here ? Where are we going after we die ? As to your questions above, this site will give you a very good analysis : http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html . Further, the Universe is so incredibly fine tuned for human life with over 150 exxxxtremely precise Life Enabling Constants which must all exist and which most need to work in unison with one another...so....we are here not by chance, but because our incredible personal Creator WANTED us to be here. WHy ? Because he desired a personal relationship with his most prized creation...us. And he hopes we will return the love he has, back to him...just as our earthly Parents hope for the same with us. In short, we are here to enjoy our Creator and enter into a real personal relationship with him . Summarizing the Bible as to our purpose , it is to : 'Rejoice, pray , give thanks to God, grow in knowledge of God, and bear every good fruit' all for Gods glory . Our REAL hope is not this brief lifetime, but FOREVER with God experiencing him and many incredible things he has for us in eternity which will never ever come to an end. This is what God wants for us, and , the ball is now in our court . Wise people gladly return the ball by committing their entire Self to Gods honor, glory, and useage while we are on this Planet. I hope you will too . It starts with a dynamic relationship with God thru his Son Jesus Christ who was sent here to pay for our many sins, and only after accepting this free gift, can we then start to have the type of relationship with God that he desires . If youre willing to do this, then get ready to have your life drastically changed from the inside out as mine was and as millions of others can also attest. Regards.

I have already done that. I've been a Christian since I was 4 years old. I'm just curious as to why it is all happening THIS way. ...........Idk, I guess I'm searching for some sort of hidden truth behind it all..Thank you, though, for answering

As a Christian, you ARE experiencing why you exist and the ultimate purpose of being here ; it is to love your Creator with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength and allow your life to be a reflection of that in all you do. There are more specific purposes and usefulness that God has for you in accordance to how he has wired you , and if you havent already done so, id pray for that to be revealed to you. If you like, you could take a Spiritual Gifts Inventory Test which will uncover your specific spiritual gifts so you can start looking for ways to implement them which will give great purpose and fulfillment to your Christian life. Do a google under Spiritual Gifts Inventory Test and there should be some online , and/or, buy a book on this at the Christian Bookstore.

[Tina]

Some of the things said here have been helpful, thank you, but are not answering what I am asking. Ok. GOD does not need us. He can glorify Himself. so maybe the real question is : Why does He love us?.........

[RickD]

Some of the things said here have been helpful, thank you, but are not answering what I am asking. Ok. GOD does not need us. He can glorify Himself. so maybe the real question is : Why does He love us?.........

Because that is His nature.

[Tina]

Some of the things said here have been helpful, thank you, but are not answering what I am asking. Ok. GOD does not need us. He can glorify Himself. so maybe the real question is : Why does He love us?.........

Because that is His nature.

So He loves us because He has to?

[RickD]

Some of the things said here have been helpful, thank you, but are not answering what I am asking. Ok. GOD does not need us. He can glorify Himself. so maybe the real question is : Why does He love us?.........

Because that is His nature.

So He loves us because He has to?

I wouldn't put it that way. He loves us, because He is love. He created us in His image. He created us with a spirit, that allows us to choose to have fellowship with Him. An eternal relationship, if we choose. That's a hard one for me to grasp. An all-powerful God, who wants His creation to be with Him forever. That's love!

[Tina]

but why?........

[Gman]

but why?........

Why does G-d love us? Same reason why we love others too... Relationship.

A lot of it is answered in Genesis where He takes a part out of Adam or his side and creates a woman with Him much like how G-d takes something out of himself, namely spirit, and creates His church to be His bride..

[Kurieuo]

This idea has been churning in my head for a very long time. I keep wondering why we exist ( and I know there are many answers for that ) but I can't help but see us like soldiers... Like GOD is using us to prove a point that He is unbeatable. I mean....none of the terrible things would have happened if He would have stopped it in the beginning. Yes, I know, free will.......but He could have not put that tree there.......if the tree was not there, it wouldn't have happened. So, did the snake tempt us or did GOD? And it's not like we're useful to GOD in any other way. He is the Almighty GOD. He doesn't need help from anyone. I know some say it's cuz He wants a relationship with us, but they also say He was perfectly happy by Himself. And some say that we're here to learn and GOD wanted to be with people that weren't like robots, but when we get to heaven, won't we be like robots? And GOD knew from the very beginning everything that was and is gonna happen........He knew if this all happened, very very many people would end up in Hell.....tortured for all eternity.........wouldn't it be better to not exist at all than to be tortured forever? If He loves us, why would GOD go through with this?

I think the difficulty you made be having, is that everyone has their own ideas as to why God created us. Each to their own really and what they find a satisfactory reason for their self.

Firstly, why do you suppose that God is using us to prove a point that He is unbeatable? Who is God trying to prove this point to? Given God's existence, this doesn't really make sense to me. Although God is certainly sovereign over all, for God's own glory doesn't really sit right either with me for it suggests God was lacking of something.

One response that really makes sense for me is that God loves to love which is neverending and overflowing. Thus, there is a real need in God to create, not simply for His glory or to reveal His might, but to complement His own nature. It is not like God needs love though for in the Trinity we have love complete - the lover, beloved and love that exists between them. Only that His love is neverending. There is no limit to God's love.

My sister once rescued a flea-ridden kitten who had been tossed in a bin and almost lost in a garbage truck. She felt for it, a strong compassion and desire to care and look that poor little kitten. She paid several hundred dollars to a vet to get it back into good health. Why? She did not even know the kitten, could have just as easily turned a blind eye. But something pulled at her heart strings to take the kitten into her arms and nurture it back to good health. If we can be this way, how much more God who created us?

The kitten story perhaps explains why God took pitty on us and through Christ redeemed us to Himself. You're right, God knew at the very beginning what was going to happen. He knew those who would reject Him and not be able to fulfill His righteous standard (all of us), and those who did desire Him back. Without a freedom to choose there is no love. Love cannot be forced. Yet, where there is a real choice then one can still choose to not love, despise, hate or many other things. So aside from God, the only way for the ultimate good (love) to happen, is through creating a real freedom and ability to choose. And so to those who do not love God, God gives them their freedom to deny Him and closes their eyes; to those who love God, their eyes are open to His obvious existence. (Romans 1:20-21)

A question might then become, is it possible for God to create a world wherein all freely choose to love back? I don't believe so, but neither do I think it is necessary for an all-loving God to create such a world. Since in a world He created where some freely choose to deny Him, they stand on their own freely made decision. God's righteousness is not impinged but rather even becomes more emphasised in the face of hate and corruption. One can wonder why God created this world rather than another, but when all is said and done, creating is God's sovereign prerogative. And the fact we see much good and beauty in creation, the world runs for us quite stable and predictably, and each of us are wired with a moral conscience... such suggests God is good. Thus, we must presume a good and loving God has sufficient enought reason to create a world wherein many freely deny Him. Yet, just as many deny God so too many accept and desire to love God back volitionally.

Hope this helped you somewhat with your own thoughts.

[Jac3510]

Tina, a simple question: what do you mean by 'love'?