Evidence for God from Science

Hello guys,
I've been going to my church for six months now. There have been so many times I've thought of leaving

1) When one of the church leaders told me she believed the cord was wrapped around her baby's neck at birth, because she had freemasons in the family

2) When a baby was dedicated at our church and me, my husband and children were the only family not invited to the "reception" afterwards because we had been attending for "only" two months. (Bought the baby a cuddly toy and never received a word of thanks from the family.)

3) When 3 out of 4 Sundays, the worship music is slow and depressing.

NOW, I've started to become disillusioned with church because of a few new things--and by that I mean people. There is a woman at church who acts like one of my closest friends when she's at my house, but is very cold to me and NEVER speaks to my husband at church. I find her behavior baffling. She's always been like this, but I've only just admitted the truth to myself. I wanted so much for her to be my friend that I overlooked it in the past, but it's getting to me now (and her behavior towards my husband has always upset him).

There is another man, an elderly man, who puts on a smiling "cute" demeanor, but he has a very patronising manor when he gets you alone and he has said things to my husband which hurt him terribly (my husband took early retirement from his job due to depression and this man always makes comments and makes my husband feel like he has to "explain himself", ie, explain why he isn't working).

Seriously, EVERYONE at church (it's a small church, about 30 members) has had a holiday (vacation) in the past month and it's getting to me. We never have the money to go away and I am getting very jealous. I haven't been on a real holiday since I was seven years old. I am so sick of going to church and hearing "Let's pray for so and so, he and the family are in Spain this week..." I've heard this (though of course the location of the holiday varies) EVERY week since Christmas.

I'm so down in the dumps. I feel like God isn't really speaking to me. These people at church keep raising their hands during worship and saying God is speaking to them, or God is giving them the opportunity to travel, or meet new people, or whatever it is. I'm a stay at home mother, trying to raise my children, trying to manage my depression/anxiety, trying to keep my head above water financially, and I don't know what I'm going to do with my life once the kids are all in school. I have no qualifications, no real friends. Life seems bleak for me right now. I wish I could say I honestly felt GOD speaking to me. I wish I had a car so I wouldn't have to rely on some of these patronising people at church to take me to prayer meetings, etc. I feel like a charity case sometimes. I just feel so much jealously and resentment towards that church right now. I want to make one thing clear though. I have NOT given up on God. I feel like giving up on this church, though.

Can anyone offer any words of encouragement?

Sorry this is all a bit of a mess........

The problem with some churches these days are that there people in them. Churches are places for the sick and broken and not those who use it as a social outlet and a status symbol. Your church sounds like it has lost it's way and that Jesus is no longer at the centre. It lacks love and all actions done without love is as resounding gong as Paul would say. I would reccommend praying for wisdom for what to do but also look for another fellowship that has Jesus front and centre.

Do not lose faith as we broken selfish people are the ones God came to save in the first place.

God Bless

Silvertusk

mum1983 wrote:Hello guys,
I've been going to my church for six months now. There have been so many times I've thought of leaving

1) When one of the church leaders told me she believed the cord was wrapped around her baby's neck at birth, because she had freemasons in the family

2) When a baby was dedicated at our church and me, my husband and children were the only family not invited to the "reception" afterwards because we had been attending for "only" two months. (Bought the baby a cuddly toy and never received a word of thanks from the family.)

3) When 3 out of 4 Sundays, the worship music is slow and depressing.

NOW, I've started to become disillusioned with church because of a few new things--and by that I mean people. There is a woman at church who acts like one of my closest friends when she's at my house, but is very cold to me and NEVER speaks to my husband at church. I find her behavior baffling. She's always been like this, but I've only just admitted the truth to myself. I wanted so much for her to be my friend that I overlooked it in the past, but it's getting to me now (and her behavior towards my husband has always upset him).

There is another man, an elderly man, who puts on a smiling "cute" demeanor, but he has a very patronising manor when he gets you alone and he has said things to my husband which hurt him terribly (my husband took early retirement from his job due to depression and this man always makes comments and makes my husband feel like he has to "explain himself", ie, explain why he isn't working).

Seriously, EVERYONE at church (it's a small church, about 30 members) has had a holiday (vacation) in the past month and it's getting to me. We never have the money to go away and I am getting very jealous. I haven't been on a real holiday since I was seven years old. I am so sick of going to church and hearing "Let's pray for so and so, he and the family are in Spain this week..." I've heard this (though of course the location of the holiday varies) EVERY week since Christmas.

I'm so down in the dumps. I feel like God isn't really speaking to me. These people at church keep raising their hands during worship and saying God is speaking to them, or God is giving them the opportunity to travel, or meet new people, or whatever it is. I'm a stay at home mother, trying to raise my children, trying to manage my depression/anxiety, trying to keep my head above water financially, and I don't know what I'm going to do with my life once the kids are all in school. I have no qualifications, no real friends. Life seems bleak for me right now. I wish I could say I honestly felt GOD speaking to me. I wish I had a car so I wouldn't have to rely on some of these patronising people at church to take me to prayer meetings, etc. I feel like a charity case sometimes. I just feel so much jealously and resentment towards that church right now. I want to make one thing clear though. I have NOT given up on God. I feel like giving up on this church, though.

Can anyone offer any words of encouragement?

Sorry this is all a bit of a mess........

I have been to places like this as well and leave. A tree is known by its fruits. Sadly - what the church is and its purpose is not taught very well in this modern era, so people come to church and remain just as messed up before coming to Christ as they are afterwards. All the problems and fears carry over into local churches. So my question would be, are you in a larger urban area or a small town?

And next, have you thought and making church in your own home? I'll explain latter what I mean by this...

If you are from a large urban area - you can look around. There are no perfect churches due to imperfect people that we ourselves all are. So if you are from a large urban area, look for one that is as close to exhibiting Christian love (plus orthodox Christian sound doctrine) developing love toward God in living relationship and loving each other relationally as well/ more on this later. If not, then, that kind of Church begins with you and the Lord proves himself by adding increase.
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This is a perfect small-church example of how the difference between "religion" and"the church" can be very great. We all know about how the big, multi-million dollar churches with "celebrity" preachers seem to have lost touch with the congregation and to their religion as a whole, but it can just as easily happen in a smaller setting. When church becomes more like a country club than a place of worship, that can be a problem.

Perhaps, if you feel like going to this church is actually being detrimental to your spirituality, you ought to consider leaving this church. You could either try to find another one nearby, or you could always carry on with your faith outside the church setting.

B. W. wrote:
. So my question would be, are you in a larger urban area or a small town?

And next, have you thought and making church in your own home? I'll explain latter what I mean by this...

If you are from a large urban area - you can look around. There are no perfect churches due to imperfect people that we ourselves all are. So if you are from a large urban area, look for one that is as close to exhibiting Christian love (plus orthodox Christian sound doctrine) developing love toward God in living relationship and loving each other relationally as well/ more on this later. If not, then, that kind of Church begins with you and the Lord proves himself by adding increase.

B.W., we live a bus ride away from most churches. (It's a rural area and we'd have to take the bus "into town") I admit, I started going to this particular church because it is close. So, I could go to a different church, but I'm just worried all this would happen all over again...

One of the features of my anxiety was not wanting to leave the house and it was a BIG deal for me to go out six months ago, taking my four children and gradually my husband too, to this church. I hate that things have turned out this way. It doesn't give me a lot of hope for the future. (I also remember my growing up in a Baptist church and all the infighting and holier than thou people there too.) I know Jesus is bigger than all of this. I just wanted to fellowship with others and (selfishly?) I wanted to make friends and for my children to grow up in a good church....

Mum1983,
You posted this post back in October, about the same church:http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 36#p103936
It doesn't sound like a healthy environment. Do you happen to have a website for this church that you could post here?

Ivellious wrote:This is a perfect small-church example of how the difference between "religion" and"the church" can be very great. We all know about how the big, multi-million dollar churches with "celebrity" preachers seem to have lost touch with the congregation and to their religion as a whole, but it can just as easily happen in a smaller setting. When church becomes more like a country club than a place of worship, that can be a problem.

Perhaps, if you feel like going to this church is actually being detrimental to your spirituality, you ought to consider leaving this church. You could either try to find another one nearby, or you could always carry on with your faith outside the church setting.

The woman who is nice to me in private and cold to me at church is constantly busy with "Christian endeavors" like organising Fair Trade events and volunteering to clean litter from the area. The whole church does this thing every month called "Messy Church" where they invite local families and try to entice them into going to church (Crafts for the kids and dinner for the family) and the way they GO ON about this event every month and pat themselves on the back is getting sickening to me. They think they are such big heros, because they have organised and given their precious time and money to these events for the "less fortunate families" in this area. Then there's someone like ME who is going through a tough time and I admit, I am jealous of how the church pays so much attention to the families who sporadically come to these Messy Church events, but me, the person who keeps turning up every Sunday, even though I am going through tough times, gets ignored or cold shouldered.

I just hate that I'm filled with so much venom towards these people now. It's not good, but am I right to feel this way?

RickD wrote:Mum1983,
You posted this post back in October, about the same church:http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 36#p103936
It doesn't sound like a healthy environment. Do you happen to have a website for this church that you could post here?

Yes, I remember posting that. I do have a website for the church, but I wouldn't dare post it on here. I could message it to you privetely. (It's called a "Charasmatic Evangelical" church, in the UK.)

mum1983 wrote:

RickD wrote:Mum1983,
You posted this post back in October, about the same church:http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 36#p103936
It doesn't sound like a healthy environment. Do you happen to have a website for this church that you could post here?

Yes, I remember posting that. I do have a website for the church, but I wouldn't dare post it on here. I could message it to you privetely. (It's called a "Charasmatic Evangelical" church, in the UK.)

If you don't mind sending it to me in a pm, I'd really like to take a look at it. Especially if the church has a "What we believe" section on the website.

There's no such thing as a perfect church, but there certainly are churches that are more healthy than others.

The word church is sadly one of the most misunderstood words in the english language in terms of its roots. Church is not a building. Church is not a place we go.

In the NT, church comes from the word "ekklesia" (which is where we get the English word, ecclesiastic) and it refers to a group of people who are "called out" from among the general population. More to the point, the church is refered to as the "body of Christ" or the "bride of Christ." There is nothing that is sacred about buildings, property, or even the different systems of church leadership that obligates anyone to attend a local church.

I'm one who has made the decision as a Christian to no longer focus my identity and christian walk around a local institutional church. I still attend them on occassion but I will not formally belong to one or identify with one in the future in all likelihood. I participate in organic fellowships where I can that meet locally in peoples homes and in which there are no clergy.

I don't know if those options are open to you. In a rural area, it might not be, I understand. Sadly, some little rural churches over time become what is known as "ingrown" where people are more concerned about their own little circles of friends and they aren't particularly welcoming to others. Sometimes a pastor in such a church is more concerned about being the big fish in a small pond and he can't allow the church to grow beyond his ability to control. Sometimes there are only a few families involved and they keep to themselves.

Just because a building has the word "church" on the outside of it means nothing. It's how they act and function and relate to one another and to Christ that defines a church. If that's not there, walk away without guilt and look elsewhere. The answer might be hiding now but if you keep your eyes open and look around you may find there are others nearby who want what you do and it's there that you may find what church is really all about.

I've been reading The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis. Last night, I got to the part where the demon Screwtape encourages his nephew to send his "client" from church to church, looking for that elusive something... I had to laugh to myself.