Evidence for God from Science

This is pretty broad as far as the topic goes -- What do you think about the idea of parents homeschooling their kids? Is it good/bad? Should there be restrictions on who can? How do you think it affects the education of the children?

I ask because it seems homeschooling is overwhelmingly done by Christians in this America, often to instill a religious overtone to their children's education that is not found in public schools.

What would be bad? I can see that a sheltering effect is harmful since people become ignorant about others but I do not like public schools myself being part of one all of my student life and I can't blame people for choosing not to put their children there. But not only is it done to instill belief, but to lead off bad influences in schools and that is noble. why would there be restictions on who can homeschool?

There's a limit to when to be home-schooled. The only time I see where homeschooling should be allowed is if some classes need to be made up, or expulsion. Yes there are other times where homeschooling are should be needed, but that's just a little bit of what I believe would be the best for students. And quite honestly, people who are home-schooled tend to be ignorant about the people around them. They been in their own little world for a long period of time. Assuming they were at home, and not a private institute.

This is pretty broad as far as the topic goes -- What do you think about the idea of parents homeschooling their kids? Is it good/bad? Should there be restrictions on who can? How do you think it affects the education of the children

I think that depends on the teacher(parent). A good teacher equals a good student.

I ask because it seems homeschooling is overwhelmingly done by Christians in this America, often to instill a religious overtone to their children's education that is not found in public schools.

I agree, that homeschooling parents want to instill their values in their children, not values that they don't agree on. Why is that wrong?

I don't think there's anything wrong with homeschooling. A parent who is a good teacher can be great for a kid. I'm probably not alone on this, but I see lots of students who were had homeschooling and were miles ahead of public school students when it came to things like reading comprehension and use of the English language and even desire to learn.

narnia4 wrote:I don't think there's anything wrong with homeschooling. A parent who is a good teacher can be great for a kid. I'm probably not alone on this, but I see lots of students who were had homeschooling and were miles ahead of public school students when it came to things like reading comprehension and use of the English language and even desire to learn.

That's the perception of homeschooled children that I hear, as well.

Took a quick google search and the research is even more in favor of homeschooling than I thought.

http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200410250.asp

Studies have shown that homeschooled kids are more active in community service, a much higher percentage say they are "very happy" with life, their GPA averages in college are better, etc.

Besides all that, the way public school advocates talk about public school is really an idealized fantasy with little basis in reality. Hundreds and thousands of students, some with special needs, who get very little personal time with a teacher with the quality of teachers varying wildly. Peer influence, its something that is very hard for parents to keep an eye on. Most kids really could care less about learning and are probably sleeping through their biology classes anyway.

Granted, homeschooling can mean a lot of parent responsibility and I'm not against public schools per se. But I just see no reason to trust a random teacher or what the government decides is important rather than a parent who knows, loves, and can meet the specific needs of their kid.

Here's my take: I think homeschooling, in theory, can be a great thing. However, there are a load of potential problems. Here are my thoughts.

1) 99% of the time a parent is simply not qualified to teach most subjects. English, perhaps, but in math and science and social studies/history/culture most parents are likely not qualified.
2) The most important part of early childhood education is not necessarily just gaining skills in academics, but also to learn social and behavioral skills that are integral to success later in life. Homeschooling can isolate children, and even if they do socialize after school, they lack the experience in dealing with other people that public school kids have.
3) You can say that you want to limit the "bad influences" on your kids, but I think that's a bad argument. First, by never exposing your kids to anything except your "ideal" world, you eliminate the chance of your kids making mistakes and learning from them. School should be a learning experience in that sense.
4) By restrictions, I meant that there should possibly be a way of masking sure parents are qualified to teach their children. I read an article about this kind of crazy Jewish family that home schooled their son through high school, but when it came to taking the test for his diploma, he couldn't pass...because his parents thought that math and science were unimportant and never taught him anything past 3rd grade math. That, to me, is the biggest danger in home schooling...the risk that without any sort of structure, the child could be put at the mercy of their parents' beliefs.
5) Personally, I think home schooling through 6th grade or so is fine, but after that I think it is almost always better for a student to go to school with other kids. Any longer than that and you risk too much in the way of social development and academics. I have a good friend who I competed with in sports and such in high school who was home schooled through 9th grade, for religious purposes. He turned out ok, but I remember him having so much trouble in math and chemistry because his parents only had high school educations and couldn't help him in those subjects.
6) I do see the great failings of the american education system. I also see its positives. I think that the No Child Left Behind law and the insane number of standardized tests (which, by the way, are the worst possible way to gauge a student's learning) are shifting the focus of schools away from teaching the kids and more towards teaching for a test. I also think the tests are contributing to the great gap in rich school/poor school education. The richer schools do better on the tests, so they get more money than they were getting before, while the poorer schools do badly and get their money taken away...how is that helping promote equal opportunity education?

I do think that the education system here is overly demonized though. The idea that we are doing SO much worse than everybody else in the world is a straight-up lie. The key is that while we give all our students these math and science exams to get statistics from, the Germans and Japanese and most of the rest of the world that beats us operate under a system that divides their students into different "divisions" of education...the smart kids go to the top level, the average go to another, and so on. Those statistics that say the Germans do better than our students at science and math come only from the "smart kids" level (because the lower levels aren't learning science and math the same way). It skews the comparative results big time. Also, America is home to the vast majority of the top universities in the world, and I've been told by numerous foreign students at the university here that our colleges are the goal of students in China and Japan and certain European countries.

1) 99% of the time a parent is simply not qualified to teach most subjects. English, perhaps, but in math and science and social studies/history/culture most parents are likely not qualified.

Gross overstatement. The content comes from the curriculum more than the parent. A significant amount of the time and effort put in with Home Schooling at the higher levels comes from independent study, which as noted earlier is probably why Homeschooled students tend to do better in college. I believe (and feel free to check me on this) that the average education level of parents who homeschool is higher than the societal norm. The support that comes from most Homeschooling parents is going to be higher in terms of actual time and level of input is going to be higher than the typical public school teacher with , even assuming that they're competent and compassionate teachers (which is a crap shoot in most school systems.)

2) The most important part of early childhood education is not necessarily just gaining skills in academics, but also to learn social and behavioral skills that are integral to success later in life. Homeschooling can isolate children, and even if they do socialize after school, they lack the experience in dealing with other people that public school kids have.

There's some risk there. Many homeschoolers however have social networks that include shared class time, planned social interaction and in addition there are some school districts that purposely include homeschoolers for eligibility for clubs and sports.

3) You can say that you want to limit the "bad influences" on your kids, but I think that's a bad argument. First, by never exposing your kids to anything except your "ideal" world, you eliminate the chance of your kids making mistakes and learning from them. School should be a learning experience in that sense.

Speculation. The ability to interact with the world around us is enhanced to some degree perhaps with a more cosmopolitan and diverse social network but it's arguable how much of that is needed before you begin to have diminishing returns. Further, most home schoolers are using curriculum that is similar or in some cases even identical to the curriculum used within the school districts where they reside.

4) By restrictions, I meant that there should possibly be a way of masking sure parents are qualified to teach their children. I read an article about this kind of crazy Jewish family that home schooled their son through high school, but when it came to taking the test for his diploma, he couldn't pass...because his parents thought that math and science were unimportant and never taught him anything past 3rd grade math. That, to me, is the biggest danger in home schooling...the risk that without any sort of structure, the child could be put at the mercy of their parents' beliefs.

Anecdotal and begs the question as to how many kids come out of some public school systems who can't read and who can't pass standardized tests. Homeschooling has more structure than you're aware I believe. It's not a carte blanche pull your kids out of school and disappear from the radar scope after that. Many school districts have full time "Home School" contacts and staffs at the School District level and examine and pursue families who cannot provide evidence of standardized test scores as well as evidence that they are using approved curriculum.

5) Personally, I think home schooling through 6th grade or so is fine, but after that I think it is almost always better for a student to go to school with other kids. Any longer than that and you risk too much in the way of social development and academics. I have a good friend who I competed with in sports and such in high school who was home schooled through 9th grade, for religious purposes. He turned out ok, but I remember him having so much trouble in math and chemistry because his parents only had high school educations and couldn't help him in those subjects.

You should be able to exercise your personal convictions with regard to your kids then. Don't impose that upon others. The limits of individual parents are often overcome by Homeschool Coops and study groups that pool resources and parents with more abilities in some areas assist accross families. The solution to many of these problems (apart from the fact that it's demonstrable that homeschoolers excel compared to public school kids) are easily addressed by means other than eliminating the option.

I don't necessarily disagree with you on your ending points Frankly, I don't think you can compete with a dedicated parent who conscientiously educates their child. The focus and care that is given in that context cannot be matched by even the best teacher with a class (or multiple classes) of kids to whom that level of personal attention just can't be given. Overall, homeschooling is maturing and becoming a more accepted option and more included in the broader educational community to address those legitimate issues that exist.

I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS MY OWN OPINION OR WHAT BUT I THINK HOME SCHOOLED KID AREN'T THAT SOCIAL.. I MEAN SCHOOL IS NOT ONLY WHERE YOU LEARN .. IS WHEN U FOUND OUT IF U FIT IN OR IN MY CASE NOT FIT IN.. canukster1127.. i understand why some parents home school for religious purposes .. imean they are teaching evolution.. in my high school .. i mean .. once i asked my teacher what the point of humans here and she replied "just to mate.. that's why we have sex". and am getting off topic.. just to wrap it up that answer kinda left a lot of holes in my head..... i actually think of homeschooling my kids.. i mean they stuff they teach in biology in my class..evolution homo--whatever er its like they"re telling kids. this is right. everything else wrong.. good thing i became a christian before i reached high school. you know the old saying"if u don't stand for something you will fall for anything"" how did i get all the way to another whole topic? (:

tunde1992 wrote:I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS MY OWN OPINION OR WHAT BUT I THINK HOME SCHOOLED KID AREN'T THAT SOCIAL.. I MEAN SCHOOL IS NOT ONLY WHERE YOU LEARN .. IS WHEN U FOUND OUT IF U FIT IN OR IN MY CASE NOT FIT IN.. canukster1127.. i understand why some parents home school for religious purposes .. imean they are teaching evolution.. in my high school .. i mean .. once i asked my teacher what the point of humans here and she replied "just to mate.. that's why we have sex". and am getting off topic.. just to wrap it up that answer kinda left a lot of holes in my head..... i actually think of homeschooling my kids.. i mean they stuff they teach in biology in my class..evolution homo--whatever er its like they"re telling kids. this is right. everything else wrong.. good thing i became a christian before i reached high school. you know the old saying"if u don't stand for something you will fall for anything"" how did i get all the way to another whole topic? (:

You're not off topic, tunde. You made some good points. I've thought of a lot of what you said, as well. I think there is some merit in what you say about some homeschooled kids that aren't social. Homeschooling parents need to find places where their kids can be kids.

I could certainly have benefited from being home-schooled. I had a tough time in school, being a little OCD and a little ADD when such was unrecognized. I was just labeled as a troublemaker (though academically did okay). It wasn't until I reached adulthood that I was able to get a grip and channel all these jumbled up emotions into a formal education and a career. But it was tough. My wife and I immediately recognized similar signs in our older son (actually with him it was more like severe anxiety) but again, circumstances prevented us form home-schooling him. We were, however, able to get him all the services he required through high school and now he is a successful college freshman.

Byblos, I have CDO. It’s like OCD, but the letters are in alphabetical order, LIKE THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE.

On another note, my house is a mess. Would it be wrong of me, to host an OCD party?

RickD wrote:Byblos, I have CDO. It’s like OCD, but the letters are in alphabetical order, LIKE THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE.

On another note, my house is a mess. Would it be wrong of me, to host an OCD party?

Oh man that is just cruel (in a brilliant way). You have no idea, I will have a field day with that.

Byblos wrote:

RickD wrote:Byblos, I have CDO. It’s like OCD, but the letters are in alphabetical order, LIKE THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE.

On another note, my house is a mess. Would it be wrong of me, to host an OCD party?

Oh man that is just cruel (in a brilliant way). You have no idea, I will have a field day with that.

Ahh, now it makes sense why your Catholic Byblos. The rituals make you feel normal with the rosery, hail Marys and the like.