Evidence for God from Science

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRMnxkOD ... AAAAAAAAAg




Hello, I was curious if you all have ever seen arguments like the ones on this video presented for a pre trib rapture? For those of you who are mid or post trib, how do you all answer these? Just as a side note, I'm currently very undecided as to which view concerning the rapture and Christ's second coming are correct. For obvious reasons I "hope" that the pre trib rapture view is the correct one, but as mentioned in the prayer request section, I and I also feel like all of you who have read it and who are also reading this will prepare yourselves mentally and spiritually for a post trib rapture where you may have to decide to either take the mark of the beast and reject God, or reject the mark and lose your life (possibly by getting beheaded according to Revelations). But anyways, feel free to respond. Thanks and God bless.

I like how he uses scripture, however the vid doesn't show him using any scripture to back up that we will be taken up prior to tribulation. The bible doesn't back up the conjecture used to announce this teaching either. Pre trib stances are based almost solely on the fact that believers will not suffer judgement and wrath and a big portion of the arguments are also based on the assumption that the church is not mentioned after rev chapter (4, I think).

Scripture shows us that the only wrath that believers will suffer in the tribulation is actually the wrath of Satan and of non-believers. Rev chapter 9, 4.,14,9-13.,16,2. all show gods wrath on those having the mark of the beast. Rev chapter 9, specific instructions are given to only plague those with the mark of the beast. It makes distinction between those who are to receive Gods wrath and those who aren't. Chapter 14 speaks of Gods wrath on unbelievers, but also speaks of those that the non-believers will kill in those days. This clearly is mention of the church. The church is not in buildings in reality. The church is the people of God, and clearly there are believers in the tribulation. Read chapter 16 also, it is more of the same type thing. Gods wrath on non-believers. Every argument that the pre-trib side holds fails in light of scripture and it is forced to grasp at ever distant straws using conjecture to attempt to hold onto a doctrine that Jesus himself clearly does not proclaim. Read the bible for yourself and do NOT follow the party line on this one. -Here is something to keep you secure: There are 3 views on this subject. Post, mid and pre trib rapture and at least 2 of these are false doctrines. It is impossible for all 3 to be true and only possible that 2 are false. There is only one view that keeps you safe in any situation and that is derived from getting to the root of the gospel. It is: We do not know the day or the hour of his coming. We need to be ready today (we could die anytime) to meet the lord, but be prepared in faith to wait until the last day, giving our very lives if necessary. If you follow this, if he comes sooner, bonus, if not, you are prepared to wait, not receiving any mark on your hand to buy or sell regardless of the arguments they might give you. They might say something like "This couldn't be the mark of the beast or you would have been raptured already, and how will you feed your family without the mark. God will forgive you etc... But the bible says clearly that we will suffer and be beheaded for his testimony and that he who holds fast until the end shall be saved. The bible makes NO overt promise to remove us prior to the tribulation. Any notion of this is by conjecture ONLY and mans interpretation. BE PREPARED to wait until the last day and you will NOT be deceived.

Yes, thank you for sharing that info. I certainly agree that we need to be prepared if indeed we are to be executed for not taking the mark. As a matter of fact in the prayer request area here:

http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 23&t=37240

I specifically asked people to pray, for me, each other, and themselves for courage and the ability to resist the mark when it becomes mandatory. Please feel free to pray concerning this.

@ DRDS
i have done much reading and research on the pre trib rapture. i at one point believed in it when i was a lot younger but over time reading the word for myself i started to see very big holes in this theory. i could literally write you an essay on this. i agree with seveneyes on this in that the pre trib theory cannot be backed up by scripture instead scripture is distorted to fit the theory. i see it as a very scary thing. i will say and point you to the fact that in 1Thes chapter 4 he conveniently doesn't mention what the tump symbolizes. if you read Mathew chapter 24 you will also see that Christ doesn't come back til the tump is sounded and if you read 1Corinth chapter 15 you will also notice that the whole in the twinkling of the eye thing that pre tribbers use happens during what? you guessed it the sounding of the trumpet and the last one for the matter. also i dont get why they also associate tribulation as wrath. tribulation doesn't equal wrath. the seven bowls of judgement equals God's wrath. Christ himself made it clear that he would come after the tribulation of those days as he told his disciples in Mathew chapter 24, also he is still distorting scripture to fit the view in 2Thes chapter 2 it clearly states that the our Lord will not come until the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed. if we have to be raptured in order for satan to have his time on this earth why is it that paul himself stated that we wont gather with HIm UNTIL these things happen? it just makes no sense if you really read it for yourself. i will keep you in prayer and plz read for yourself and keep asking God in prayer. one way you know there is something not right with the doctrine is that you have questions that the doctrine cannot answer trust me i have been there but now that i have read for myself i don't question it any longer cuz it all makes sense now. keep in prayer and God will show you.

Awesome DRDS. I consider it a triumph every time one of us pushes through any of the false doctrines that are out there. It is part of my calling to speak on these matters and for a long time I felt like I was in a losing battle. Now more and more people are beginning to see past the conjecture out there.

The pre-trib doctrine was "invented" in the 1830's NEVER before. If one holds to pre-trib, they believe in a "secret" 2nd coming. When I look at pre-trib myself, I have to stop and ask one simple question, When does the resurrection happen? So I am a post-trib believer.