Evidence for God from Science

Quick story. A young girl at my work(early 20's), was 8 weeks pregnant. She started getting pretty sick, so she went to her doctor to see what was wrong. The dr. did an ultrasound, and found the baby only measuring 5 weeks, and no heartbeat. The baby died, that's why she was getting sick. This doctor is affiliated with a healthcare system that is "Christian", and will not perform abortions. The doctor gave her 2 choices. She could wait until she gets sick, and gives birth on her own to her dead baby. Or, second, she could go to a clinic that performs abortions, so they could operate, and remove her dead child. In medical terms, this is technically an abortion, even though the baby was already dead. Now, this is what really gets me riled. She went to the clinic to have the procedure done, and she encountered protesters(picketers) at the clinic. One lady stopped her and started telling her how abortion is wrong, yada yada yada. Then, this lady gets her 4 year old child to ask my co-worker why she is having an abortion. The little girl asked her, "don't you love your baby? My mom loved me enough to let me be born." And my co-worker even told the lady and her child that her baby was already dead. They still harrassed her. I don't know about you, but I think I would have punched that lady in the face. She is upset that her baby died, only to be harrassed by some lady, and her child who she makes do the dirty work. These people judged my co-worker, and had no idea what she was going through. This is what God is calling you to do at abortion clinics? Imo, this is no better than Westboro Baptist Church, with their kids out picketing. Absolutely disgusting. Any comments?

Personally, regardless of your views about abortions, I think many picketers/protesters outside abortion clinics and hospitals that perform abortions are absolutely vile people. There are avenues that you can voice your opinions without being so offensive, rude, insensitive, and hurtful to others, especially when you have no idea what kind of situation you are dealing with. Especially when you actually try to interact with the people entering/leaving. I honestly agree, I would have trouble resisting physically removing someone from my presence if they pulled this on me or someone I know.

As far as using kids, I don't care what your views are or what you are protesting, that is extremely low-class. The WBC, as you mentioned, uses this tactic and it's absolutely ludicrous. The kids have no idea what they are saying/doing. I classify this as borderline child abuse, and clearly it's just to get emotional backing and support. It's just using the kids.

Also, I have issues with the message being sent. Like you said, I totally think it's insane to actually think God or Jesus approves of the manner which many people go about these protests. They also give a bad name to many respectable Christians who would like to give their voice to the topic.

It's another case of attempting to make the ends justify the means. I've never been a fan of picketing abortion clinics. I respect those who proactively work to provide viable options for women who are in a difficult situation who recognize that not only is there a person in the womb, but there's a person carrying that baby and she deserves respect as well. The most effective way to achieve a positive result is to reach the people involved making the decisions and be a part of helping to change their minds while ministering to their needs.

RickD wrote:Any comments?

Yes: both the picketers at the abortion clinic - and the Christian heathcare system that the doctor is affiliated with - suffer from Pharisaism in this case. Synonyms for Pharisaism include sanctimoniousness, self-righteousness, and - the Big One, hypocrisy.

Use this event to reach out to your co-worker with God's love. May she see Jesus in you.

FL

Canuckster1127 wrote:It's another case of attempting to make the ends justify the means. I've never been a fan of picketing abortion clinics. I respect those who proactively work to provide viable options for women who are in a difficult situation who recognize that not only is there a person in the womb, but there's a person carrying that baby and she deserves respect as well. The most effective way to achieve a positive result is to reach the people involved making the decisions and be a part of helping to change their minds while ministering to their needs.

It's funny you mention this, Bart. Another thing she told me, was about the complete lack of compassion, by the doctors and nurses, for all the women at the clinic. She was told before the procedure, that she would have at least an hour to rest and recover, but was rushed out 5 minutes after her procedure. One young woman was dripping blood down her legs, and an employee just gave her a rag, and told her to wipe it up herself. She said they were as nice as can be, beforehand. But as soon as the procedure was over, there was a complete lack of compassion. Not a single employee asked her how she was feeling after the procedure. Like there was no person involved in what they were doing. Maybe that's the way they dealt with the kind of "work" they do. I guess once you kill enough babies, your heart gets hardened?

I don't know Rick. I don't have much firsthand knowledge of that environment, but at some point it becomes a business and operated as such, I would imagine.

I think that is appalling. My wife had a scan and found her baby was dead - this was at 8 weeks and the NHS did the procedure at the hospital to remove it. There wasn't any mention of the word abortion. And the care was great. Those people outside were not Christians.

SIlvertusk

Silvertusk wrote:I think that is appalling. My wife had a scan and found her baby was dead - this was at 8 weeks and the NHS did the procedure at the hospital to remove it. There wasn't any mention of the word abortion. And the care was great. Those people outside were not Christians.

SIlvertusk

Silvertusk, my wife had a similar procedure 10 1/2 years ago. Same thing. Ultrasound at 8 weeks. Baby was dead. But, in technical terms, the word "abortion" was used in the paperwork. Maybe it was something like, "partial abortion". But it was a while ago, so I'm not sure exactly. And, her care was very good, as well.

Would we really expect doctors and nurses in an abortion clinic to be compassionate? Think about it. Doctors and nurses aren't ignorant of the fact that it is a human being they are killing. That has to put a heavy burden on them, whether or not they want to admit it.

Sounds strange that they would send her to a clinic.

"40 days for life," is a group that does an admirable job of prayer vigils without harrassing and also offering pro-life counseling and alternatives.

I dare say, that if there were a clinic where people could take there new born child and have it 'taken care of,' there would be protest.

Those people outside were not Christians.

Is it disgusting? No. Misguided. yes. To say they aren't Christians is just as vile. Unless of course you are the perfect Christian who never sins. To say they weren't acting Christ life is perfectly valid.

Jlay wrote:

Sounds strange that they would send her to a clinic.

Yes, I thought it was strange when she told me. She said the hospital and her doctor were affiliated with a Christian hospital, and they don't do abortions. Isn't it sad that her own doctor and their "Christian" hospital can't differentiate between killing a live human inside the womb, and performing a procedure to remove a baby that had already died? Maybe there's a whole lot of legal mumbo jumbo involved, but it seems pretty warped to me.

Yep.
you know the Duggars just went through this as well. Not the clinic part, but that of losing a child before birth. Would have been their 20th.

Rick, I am sorry to hear about your friend. I can't imagine that.

My comment however is, I am not so sure about confidence in your friend's gynecologist. To my understanding, the conceived child at 5 weeks without heartbeat would simply go away in a very heavy mensuration cycle. Though, I assume that her doctor was being cautious more than anything.

Please let your friend know we are praying for her here at God and science and let her know that her child is with our Lord today.

jlay wrote:Sounds strange that they would send her to a clinic.

"40 days for life," is a group that does an admirable job of prayer vigils without harrassing and also offering pro-life counseling and alternatives.

I dare say, that if there were a clinic where people could take there new born child and have it 'taken care of,' there would be protest.

Those people outside were not Christians.

Is it disgusting? No. Misguided. yes. To say they aren't Christians is just as vile. Unless of course you are the perfect Christian who never sins. To say they weren't acting Christ life is perfectly valid.

No I stand by my original post - they are not Christians. They showed no love and compassion in their actions. Period. I am sick to death of people claiming they are showing Christ love when they blatently not. Unless they are convicted of their sins by he who dwells within them and seek forgiveness - then they are not followers of Christ.

I don't claim perfection and when I stumble I seek fogiveness.

If one of these people had spoken to me or my wife like this after we lost our baby I would tear them a new one right there and then - that is how strong I feel about it. And then of course asked for forgiveness after.

Silvertusk.

No I stand by my original post - they are not Christians. They showed no love and compassion in their actions. Period. I am sick to death of people claiming they are showing Christ love when they blatently not. Unless they are convicted of their sins by he who dwells within them and seek forgiveness - then they are not followers of Christ.

If you are prepared to be judged under the measure you judge with, then have at it.

If one of these people had spoken to me or my wife like this after we lost our baby I would tear them a new one right there and then

Ah yes, a good ole Christian **** whoopin.

RickD wrote:Quick story. A young girl at my work(early 20's), was 8 weeks pregnant. She started getting pretty sick, so she went to her doctor to see what was wrong. The dr. did an ultrasound, and found the baby only measuring 5 weeks, and no heartbeat. The baby died, that's why she was getting sick. This doctor is affiliated with a healthcare system that is "Christian", and will not perform abortions. The doctor gave her 2 choices. She could wait until she gets sick, and gives birth on her own to her dead baby. Or, second, she could go to a clinic that performs abortions, so they could operate, and remove her dead child. In medical terms, this is technically an abortion, even though the baby was already dead. Now, this is what really gets me riled. She went to the clinic to have the procedure done, and she encountered protesters(picketers) at the clinic. One lady stopped her and started telling her how abortion is wrong, yada yada yada. Then, this lady gets her 4 year old child to ask my co-worker why she is having an abortion. The little girl asked her, "don't you love your baby? My mom loved me enough to let me be born." And my co-worker even told the lady and her child that her baby was already dead. They still harrassed her. I don't know about you, but I think I would have punched that lady in the face. She is upset that her baby died, only to be harrassed by some lady, and her child who she makes do the dirty work. These people judged my co-worker, and had no idea what she was going through. This is what God is calling you to do at abortion clinics? Imo, this is no better than Westboro Baptist Church, with their kids out picketing. Absolutely disgusting. Any comments?

I've read the replies hereafter, but something doesn't add up. Why would she be sent to an abortion clinic for a medical procedure that should be done in a hospital? It also definitely is not an abortion as would be medically defined. I don't know the young girl, the story smells fishy personally.

I also don't agree with the heartlessness of some picket protesters -- the ones I've seen in real life have been quite civil and at most just hand out brochures and seem to cop a lot of flack off the street from pro-choice people -- but I guess in America you guys seem to do things in a more irrate/extreme manner.