Evidence for God from Science

I don't really believe or accept the secular and scientific ideal and/or definition of depression and bipolar...

Science wants you to believe you have a chemical imbalance...

I believe it's much more than that...

And I believe the first person to experience it was Adam (Genesis 2:17)...

What I believe is that your life force (Proverbs 20:27); the very essence of you, is out of balance (imbalanced) when you're out of contact with your creator (John 4:24)...

- 1 Corinthians 15:45 - And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Does anyone else have an opinion like this?

--- IN CHRIST ---

bradford

Then, wouldn't that mean that all atheists are bipolar, if your theory were true?

You've got a point.. I guess I have to pray a little more.

--- IN CHRIST ---

Well, if you look at research, many cases of mental and emotional disorders (clinical depression and bipolar disorder included) are in fact caused by chemical imbalances in the brain. Your brain is stimulated and reacts to the stimulation of thousands (if not more) of chemicals and hormones and so on. If you mess with that "normal" balance, the brain will inevitably begin to act differently. In some cases this can be problematic.

That said, the amount of information we know about the brain and its functions is still very limited compared to most other fields of biology. We know a lot, but the brain is much different than our other biological systems and we haven't had the means to study it thoroughly until recently. Many cases of mental disorders are still a mystery to us, and I will certainly accept that we cannot explain every case of depression or bipolar disorder and so on.

I'm also a little concerned that you preface your belief with "science wants you to believe...". That bothers me because you go in with some presumption that you can't trust anyone who uses science to describe something. Like your psychiatrist or neurologist is part of some great conspiracy. I would re-evaluate your stance and hopefully realize that you don't have to always resort to fighting science with religion.

Also, to go off of Rick's statement, it's kind of unreasonable to say that mental problems are automatically related to spirituality. That was the belief of 2000 years ago, but we have found that there are physical reasons why these things happen. Are you saying that a nun suffering from dementia is just not connected to God any more? Or that normal non-Christians who go about their lives just like any one else are all secretly clinically depressed?

Ivellious wrote:Well, if you look at research, many cases of mental and emotional disorders (clinical depression and bipolar disorder included) are in fact caused by chemical imbalances in the brain. Your brain is stimulated and reacts to the stimulation of thousands (if not more) of chemicals and hormones and so on. If you mess with that "normal" balance, the brain will inevitably begin to act differently. In some cases this can be problematic.

That said, the amount of information we know about the brain and its functions is still very limited compared to most other fields of biology. We know a lot, but the brain is much different than our other biological systems and we haven't had the means to study it thoroughly until recently. Many cases of mental disorders are still a mystery to us, and I will certainly accept that we cannot explain every case of depression or bipolar disorder and so on.

I'm also a little concerned that you preface your belief with "science wants you to believe...". That bothers me because you go in with some presumption that you can't trust anyone who uses science to describe something. Like your psychiatrist or neurologist is part of some great conspiracy. I would re-evaluate your stance and hopefully realize that you don't have to always resort to fighting science with religion.

Also, to go off of Rick's statement, it's kind of unreasonable to say that mental problems are automatically related to spirituality. That was the belief of 2000 years ago, but we have found that there are physical reasons why these things happen. Are you saying that a nun suffering from dementia is just not connected to God any more? Or that normal non-Christians who go about their lives just like any one else are all secretly clinically depressed?

You both make good points... You've got me praying.. I truly thought that what I wrote on the issue was not presumptuous (James 1:19), but inspired.

If you all are a part of the body, keep me in your prayers.

--- IN CHRIST ---

bradford

Ivellious, I've got to quote something you said...

I'm also a little concerned that you preface your belief with "science wants you to believe...". That bothers me because you go in with some presumption that you can't trust anyone who uses science to describe something. Like your psychiatrist or neurologist is part of some great conspiracy. I would re-evaluate your stance and hopefully realize that you don't have to always resort to fighting science with religion.

I believe that there is a certain class or race of people in control of the masses through mainstream media... Everything's plugged into it, politics; healthcare, organized religion, and most of all entertainment.. Matrix, dark city, and twilight are not just movies.

"If you want to hide the truth from someone, put it right in front of them..."

- Matthew 24:24 - For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

That's all Dr oz and phil are (1 John 2:18)...

--- IN CHRIST ---

bradford

Brad,

I'm a chaplain in a hospital. I can assure you that chemical imbalances are medical facts. Doctors can do actual blood tests and actually measure the imbalances. Further, it's a well established fact that physiological problems can have a direct impact on your emotional and mental state. There's nothing unchristian in recognizing that what happens to our bodies affects our souls. Likewise, it's a well established fact that what goes on in your mind can affect your body. So the soul affects the body and the body affects the soul.

I'd also caution against believing your own thoughts are inspired. Inspiration is reserved for Scripture and prophecy. Now, different people have different views on this, but as one who believes in the sufficiency of Scripture and a closed canon (no more Bible being written), I'd say that, in all probability, God doesn't speak via inspiration anymore. We have His complete, inspired Word. That is the means by which He speaks today.

Now, what you can do is examine God's revelation--both general and special--and apply what you learn to questions like the one you raised in your post. And if your argument is firmly rooted in revelation (general or special), you can draw correct conclusions. I just think in this case, you got off a bit.

Just my $.02.

Jac3510 wrote:Brad,

I'm a chaplain in a hospital. I can assure you that chemical imbalances are medical facts. Doctors can do actual blood tests and actually measure the imbalances. Further, it's a well established fact that physiological problems can have a direct impact on your emotional and mental state. There's nothing unchristian in recognizing that what happens to our bodies affects our souls. Likewise, it's a well established fact that what goes on in your mind can affect your body. So the soul affects the body and the body affects the soul.

I'd also caution against believing your own thoughts are inspired. Inspiration is reserved for Scripture and prophecy. Now, different people have different views on this, but as one who believes in the sufficiency of Scripture and a closed canon (no more Bible being written), I'd say that, in all probability, God doesn't speak via inspiration anymore. We have His complete, inspired Word. That is the means by which He speaks today.

Now, what you can do is examine God's revelation--both general and special--and apply what you learn to questions like the one you raised in your post. And if your argument is firmly rooted in revelation (general or special), you can draw correct conclusions. I just think in this case, you got off a bit.

Just my $.02.

I can assure you that chemical imbalances are medical facts.

I believe you... Use to work in healthcare.. My question to you is what are we 1st and foremost when reduced to the least common denominator (John 6:63, John 4:24, 1 Thessalonians 5:23)?

Are we chemicals (physiological) when reduced??? In the gospels, Jesus never addressed chemicals or their imbalances.. Why not (Jeremiah 17:9)?

--- IN CHRIST ---

bradford

Jac 3510 you also said,

I'd also caution against believing your own thoughts are inspired. Inspiration is reserved for Scripture and prophecy. Now, different people have different views on this, but as one who believes in the sufficiency of Scripture and a closed canon (no more Bible being written), I'd say that, in all probability, God doesn't speak via inspiration anymore. We have His complete, inspired Word. That is the means by which He speaks today.

I appreciate your admonition... But didn't THE LORD tell HIS disciples: whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained (John 20:23)???

Us sons of God as God have same ability to forgive or not to forgive sin.. Now is that inspiration or what?

--- IN CHRIST ---

bradford

RickD wrote:Then, wouldn't that mean that all atheists are bipolar, if your theory were true?

All atheists are under Satanic forces (Psalms 14:1, Psalms 53:1).. They play a major part in His scheme whether they know it or not.

--- IN CHRIST ---

bradford

Jesus probably had no clue what a "chemical" was, nor did pretty much anybody of that era. Even if Jesus did have a PhD in biochemistry, talking about it to the people of that era would have been a fruitless attempt at explaining things. Your argument is flawed because if you say that only the things in the Bible can be true, and that modern science is secondary, you may as well throw every scientific discovery and explanation since biblical times out the window, because there was a primitive and superstitious explanation for it back then.

Your passages are, in my opinion, referring only to spiritual health. Yes, according to the Bible, your spiritual health is more important than physical health, but that doesn't mean they necessarily cross over. There are horrible, ungodly people in perfect physical health and good Christians who have cancer. Your quote about the heart and not understanding it is totally metaphorical, if you ask me. Read the whole passage, it is using figurative language and metaphor to relate spiritual health to physical things in nature so it can be more easily understood.

Also, you cannot forgive sin according to the Bible. You can personally forgive transgressions, but to claim that the Bible says Christians all have the same boundaries as God is ludicrous.

Bradigans wrote:I believe you... Use to work in healthcare.. My question to you is what are we 1st and foremost when reduced to the least common denominator (John 6:63, John 4:24, 1 Thessalonians 5:23)?

Are we chemicals (physiological) when reduced??? In the gospels, Jesus never addressed chemicals or their imbalances.. Why not (Jeremiah 17:9)?

--- IN CHRIST ---

bradford

Just because He didn't call them chemical imbalances, it doesn't follow that He didn't address them. I think it is the case that humans are a composite of both body and soul, and that the body affects the soul and that the soul affects the body. If Jesus heals a person--the whole of him--then He is necessarily healing both those physical and non-physical components.

So, no, we aren't just reduced to chemicals. But the chemicals that do obviously make up our bodies affect our souls. Healing the physical/chemical problems may not cure the soul's problems, but that may be a necessary precondition to healing the soul's problems. In some cases, it certainly is. In others, maybe not. In others, the relationship could be exactly reversed, where the soul's problems are actually resulting in chemical problems, and the soulish problems need to be resolved first. It's a case by case basis.

Bradigans wrote:I appreciate your admonition... But didn't THE LORD tell HIS disciples: whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained (<a target="_blank" data-version="nasb95" data-reference="John 20.23" class="lbsBibleRef" href="http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/John%2020.23">John 20:23</a>)???

Us sons of God as God have same ability to forgive or not to forgive sin.. Now is that inspiration or what?

--- IN CHRIST ---

bradford

No, that is not inspiration. Inspiration is when you speak God's words. It comes from the Greek word θεοπνευστος (theopneustos, which literally means "God-breathed." Scripture is inspired. Prophecy is inspired. Even if I conceded you had the power to forgive sins (and I don't, but that's another argument entirely), that would not be inspiration. That would just be you exercising an authority God granted you.

Ivellious wrote:Jesus probably had no clue what a "chemical" was, nor did pretty much anybody of that era. Even if Jesus did have a PhD in biochemistry, talking about it to the people of that era would have been a fruitless attempt at explaining things. Your argument is flawed because if you say that only the things in the Bible can be true, and that modern science is secondary, you may as well throw every scientific discovery and explanation since biblical times out the window, because there was a primitive and superstitious explanation for it back then.

Your passages are, in my opinion, referring only to spiritual health. Yes, according to the Bible, your spiritual health is more important than physical health, but that doesn't mean they necessarily cross over. There are horrible, ungodly people in perfect physical health and good Christians who have cancer. Your quote about the heart and not understanding it is totally metaphorical, if you ask me. Read the whole passage, it is using figurative language and metaphor to relate spiritual health to physical things in nature so it can be more easily understood.

Also, you cannot forgive sin according to the Bible. You can personally forgive transgressions, but to claim that the Bible says Christians all have the same boundaries as God is ludicrous.

I respect your opinion...

Jac3510, I would like to quote you as follows:

Just because He didn't call them chemical imbalances, it doesn't follow that He didn't address them. I think it is the case that humans are a composite of both body and soul, and that the body affects the soul and that the soul affects the body. If Jesus heals a person--the whole of him--then He is necessarily healing both those physical and non-physical components.

I believe we are a composite of a spirit (our innermost being John 4:24), soul, and body...

1st and foremost, we are spirits (John 6:63)...

We possess souls (James 1:21, Matthew 16:26)...

Lastly, on this earth we live in bodies (2 Corinthians 5:1)...

After regeneration (John 3:3, 3:6), we have a choice to yield our souls either to the carnal self or spiritual self...

I believe the soul gives us our distinctiveness.. We're not robots and don't belong to some type of borg.

--- IN CHRIST ---

bradford

So you hold to a tripartite view of man. I hold to a dipartite view, but we have more in common than we disagree. Everything I said above we apply equally to the model you have suggested.