Truth matters.
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:39 pm
Well I wrote all of what is below first, then it occurred to me that I should, since this is my first post, tell you why this is so important to me.
“Get it all on record now - get the films - get the witnesses -because somewhere down the road of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened.”
― Dwight D. Eisenhower
Twisting the factual history of world war two is not something you do to win points in an argument. Interpretations of what happened before, during and shortly after the rise of Hitlers Germany needs to appeal to the facts as much as can be done, this is the cautionary tale of our modern world, if you muddle with it the lessons get muddled as well. It is a matter that needs to contain the highest of intellectual honesty standards or we do nothing but invite its repeat.
I actually received something similar to this in an email years ago from my Grandfather who got it from someone who got it from someone else etc and it spurred me to do some research on it. It turned out that I had to email my Grandfather the original German copy, he speaks and is able to read enough German to see that he passed on to me something that was not true, my Grandfather is bad at apologizing but he did as he takes this kind of thing seriously as well, which is where I got it from I would assume,
But on to my original post before my impromptu introduction.
Hi,
I am came to your front page while wandering the internet and stopped to read a few of the articles you have posted there. One in particular gave me pause. This article, http://www.answers.org/apologetics/hitquote.html, is historically inaccurate. The quotes as presented is from a translation of the original German to French then to English, with the translation being, well, 'sabotaged', is the only word I can think of during the step of German to French. It is a real book, that really does contain shorthand notes of Hitler speaking but your using quotations from the translation that has been shown to be fraudulent. The book has been re-translated many times over by many different scholars and nothing even resembling the quotations has shown up. The full work is copyrighted (well all the translations are, even the one that is falsified), but it is legal to use small spinets so here is hoping you have a fluent German speaker among you so you need not take my word for it.
Original German.
"Ich bin auf Grund höherer Gewalt da, wenn ich zu etwas nötig bin. Abgesehen davon, dass sie mir zu grausam ist, die seligmachende Kirche! Ich habe noch nie Gefallen gefunden daran, andere zu schinden, wenn ich auch weiβ, dass es ohne Gewalt nicht möglich ist, sich in der Welt zu behaupten. Es wird nur dem das Leben gegeben, der am stäirksten darum ficht. Das Gesetz des Lebens heilβt: Verteidige dich!
Die Zeit, inder wir leben, ist die Erscheinung des Zusammenbruchs dieser Sache. Es kann 100 oder 200 Jahre noch dauern. Es tut mir leid, dass ich wie Moses das gelobte Land nur aus der Ferne sehen kann. Wir wachsen in eine sonnige, wirklich tolerante Weltanschauung hinein: Der Mensch soll in der Lage sein, die ihm von Gott gegebenen Fähigkeiten zu entwickeln. Wir müssen nur verhindern, dass eine neue, noch gröβere Lüge entsteht: die Jüdisch-Bolschewistische Welt. Sie muss ich zerbrechen."
The bad translation. The underlined and bold is mine, I did so to highlight the portion you used on your front page entry, recognizing it is what lead me to post in the first place.
"If my presence on earth is providential, I owe it to a superior will. But I owe nothing to the Church that trafficks in the salvation of souls, and I find it really too cruel. I admit that one cannot impose one's will by force, but I have a horror of people who enjoy inflicting sufferings on others' bodies and tyranny upon others' souls. Our epoch will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity. It will last another hundred years, two hundred years perhaps. My regret will have been that I couldn't, like whoever the prophet was, behold the promised land from afar. We are entering into a conception of the world that will be a sunny era, an era of tolerance. Man must be put in a position to develop freely the talents that God has given him. What is important above all is that we should prevent a greater lie from replacing the lie that is disappearing. The world of Judeo-Bolshevism must collapse."
The translation that is considered honest with grammar changes only when necessary to make it readable in translation.
"I am here due to a higher power, if I am necessary for anything. Leave aside that she is too cruel for me, the beatifying Church! I have never found pleasure in maltreating others, even if I know it isn't possible to stand your ground in the world without force. Life is only given to those who fight for it the hardest. It is the law of life: Defend yourself! The time in which we live indicates the collapse of this idea. It can still take 100 or 200 years. I am sorry that, like Moses, I can only see the Promised Land from a distance. We are growing into a sunny, really tolerant worldview: Man shall be able to develop his God-given talents. We must only prevent a new, even greater lie from arising: that of the Jewish-Bolshevist world. That's what I [must] destroy. "
The translation is so bad that you don't even need to be fluent in German to catch the errors since English and German share a common lingual ancestor you can see the changes in sentence structure and even pick out words that have stayed close enough in pronunciation to know that something hinky happened. Even if the people who own this page do not take it down I hope that if you see or hear quotes from this book you will let people know that the Roper translation of this book is highly suspect, as it is circulated in emails everyday as an honest translation.
Thank you for your time,
Aaron
“Get it all on record now - get the films - get the witnesses -because somewhere down the road of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened.”
― Dwight D. Eisenhower
Twisting the factual history of world war two is not something you do to win points in an argument. Interpretations of what happened before, during and shortly after the rise of Hitlers Germany needs to appeal to the facts as much as can be done, this is the cautionary tale of our modern world, if you muddle with it the lessons get muddled as well. It is a matter that needs to contain the highest of intellectual honesty standards or we do nothing but invite its repeat.
I actually received something similar to this in an email years ago from my Grandfather who got it from someone who got it from someone else etc and it spurred me to do some research on it. It turned out that I had to email my Grandfather the original German copy, he speaks and is able to read enough German to see that he passed on to me something that was not true, my Grandfather is bad at apologizing but he did as he takes this kind of thing seriously as well, which is where I got it from I would assume,
But on to my original post before my impromptu introduction.Hi,
I am came to your front page while wandering the internet and stopped to read a few of the articles you have posted there. One in particular gave me pause. This article, http://www.answers.org/apologetics/hitquote.html, is historically inaccurate. The quotes as presented is from a translation of the original German to French then to English, with the translation being, well, 'sabotaged', is the only word I can think of during the step of German to French. It is a real book, that really does contain shorthand notes of Hitler speaking but your using quotations from the translation that has been shown to be fraudulent. The book has been re-translated many times over by many different scholars and nothing even resembling the quotations has shown up. The full work is copyrighted (well all the translations are, even the one that is falsified), but it is legal to use small spinets so here is hoping you have a fluent German speaker among you so you need not take my word for it.
Original German.
"Ich bin auf Grund höherer Gewalt da, wenn ich zu etwas nötig bin. Abgesehen davon, dass sie mir zu grausam ist, die seligmachende Kirche! Ich habe noch nie Gefallen gefunden daran, andere zu schinden, wenn ich auch weiβ, dass es ohne Gewalt nicht möglich ist, sich in der Welt zu behaupten. Es wird nur dem das Leben gegeben, der am stäirksten darum ficht. Das Gesetz des Lebens heilβt: Verteidige dich!
Die Zeit, inder wir leben, ist die Erscheinung des Zusammenbruchs dieser Sache. Es kann 100 oder 200 Jahre noch dauern. Es tut mir leid, dass ich wie Moses das gelobte Land nur aus der Ferne sehen kann. Wir wachsen in eine sonnige, wirklich tolerante Weltanschauung hinein: Der Mensch soll in der Lage sein, die ihm von Gott gegebenen Fähigkeiten zu entwickeln. Wir müssen nur verhindern, dass eine neue, noch gröβere Lüge entsteht: die Jüdisch-Bolschewistische Welt. Sie muss ich zerbrechen."
The bad translation. The underlined and bold is mine, I did so to highlight the portion you used on your front page entry, recognizing it is what lead me to post in the first place.
"If my presence on earth is providential, I owe it to a superior will. But I owe nothing to the Church that trafficks in the salvation of souls, and I find it really too cruel. I admit that one cannot impose one's will by force, but I have a horror of people who enjoy inflicting sufferings on others' bodies and tyranny upon others' souls. Our epoch will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity. It will last another hundred years, two hundred years perhaps. My regret will have been that I couldn't, like whoever the prophet was, behold the promised land from afar. We are entering into a conception of the world that will be a sunny era, an era of tolerance. Man must be put in a position to develop freely the talents that God has given him. What is important above all is that we should prevent a greater lie from replacing the lie that is disappearing. The world of Judeo-Bolshevism must collapse."
The translation that is considered honest with grammar changes only when necessary to make it readable in translation.
"I am here due to a higher power, if I am necessary for anything. Leave aside that she is too cruel for me, the beatifying Church! I have never found pleasure in maltreating others, even if I know it isn't possible to stand your ground in the world without force. Life is only given to those who fight for it the hardest. It is the law of life: Defend yourself! The time in which we live indicates the collapse of this idea. It can still take 100 or 200 years. I am sorry that, like Moses, I can only see the Promised Land from a distance. We are growing into a sunny, really tolerant worldview: Man shall be able to develop his God-given talents. We must only prevent a new, even greater lie from arising: that of the Jewish-Bolshevist world. That's what I [must] destroy. "
The translation is so bad that you don't even need to be fluent in German to catch the errors since English and German share a common lingual ancestor you can see the changes in sentence structure and even pick out words that have stayed close enough in pronunciation to know that something hinky happened. Even if the people who own this page do not take it down I hope that if you see or hear quotes from this book you will let people know that the Roper translation of this book is highly suspect, as it is circulated in emails everyday as an honest translation.
Thank you for your time,
Aaron