Evidence for God from Science

What do you think about the way society today views beauty? What does the Bible say about this?

Tina wrote:What do you think about the way society today views beauty? What does the Bible say about this?

Are you referring to beauty as what makes people attracted to each other? I'll assume that you are, correct me if I got it wrong.

The modern day society mostly treats women as sexual objects. It teaches girls and young women that physical attributes are the only thing that matters, and they should be used to appease men, yet those who always cry about sexism and discrimination, are apparently silent on that issue. One instance would be pornography - few would deny that it's often very degrading towards women - yet no complaints whatsoever coming from those who scream about gender discrimination. But I digress - anyway, at the time when TV raises children instead of their parents, this phenomenon is very dangerous to the young minds. You have probably noticed 13,14,15-year-old girls who pose half-naked and post their pictures on social networks. The average age of becoming sexually active is also getting dangerously low. So I would say that it's a direct consequence of the distortion of the image of beauty.

Many young girls want to get guys to like them by appealing to their sexual senses, because they think it's the right thing to do - they were taught so by the society. Guys, on the other hand, are rarely taught what it takes to be a gentleman and how to treat women properly. Even some of those who are will often become disillusioned by the lack of their success, so they'll try to mistreat girls, thinking that it will make them cool. A confusion ensues, although it could be solved simply by communicating with the opposite sex. Those who think communication is not cool, will listen to bad advice from those who are even less successful than them (it's just that they are skilled at hiding that fact), which will lead to bad decisions, etc., etc...

I personally don't adhere to the distorted image of beauty - when I look at the physical appearance of girls, I first look at the face, then hair, then the way she dresses (I find overly revealing clothes distasteful) and only after that, her body. Still, I would lie if I said that the body doesn't matter to me. It does, it's just that the modern definition of beauty, in my opinion, overrates its importance.

Regarding the Biblical perspective, I'll leave it to those who are familiar with it more than I am.

Reactionary wrote:

Tina wrote:What do you think about the way society today views beauty? What does the Bible say about this?

Are you referring to beauty as what makes people attracted to each other? I'll assume that you are, correct me if I got it wrong.

The modern day society mostly treats women as sexual objects. It teaches girls and young women that physical attributes are the only thing that matters, and they should be used to appease men, yet those who always cry about sexism and discrimination, are apparently silent on that issue. One instance would be pornography - few would deny that it's often very degrading towards women - yet no complaints whatsoever coming from those who scream about gender discrimination. But I digress - anyway, at the time when TV raises children instead of their parents, this phenomenon is very dangerous to the young minds. You have probably noticed 13,14,15-year-old girls who pose half-naked and post their pictures on social networks. The average age of becoming sexually active is also getting dangerously low. So I would say that it's a direct consequence of the distortion of the image of beauty.

Many young girls want to get guys to like them by appealing to their sexual senses, because they think it's the right thing to do - they were taught so by the society. Guys, on the other hand, are rarely taught what it takes to be a gentleman and how to treat women properly. Even some of those who are will often become disillusioned by the lack of their success, so they'll try to mistreat girls, thinking that it will make them cool. A confusion ensues, although it could be solved simply by communicating with the opposite sex. Those who think communication is not cool, will listen to bad advice from those who are even less successful than them (it's just that they are skilled at hiding that fact), which will lead to bad decisions, etc., etc...

I personally don't adhere to the distorted image of beauty - when I look at the physical appearance of girls, I first look at the face, then hair, then the way she dresses (I find overly revealing clothes distasteful) and only after that, her body. Still, I would lie if I said that the body doesn't matter to me. It does, it's just that the modern definition of beauty, in my opinion, overrates its importance.

Regarding the Biblical perspective, I'll leave it to those who are familiar with it more than I am.

Everything you say is true. The problem is I feel that nothing can be done about it.

Tina wrote:Everything you say is true. The problem is I feel that nothing can be done about it.

Try being a positive example. People will notice it - not all, but even some of those who won't, will think about it, while those who share (y)our opinion will feel more confident that they're on the right path. "Be the change you wish to see in the world", as Gandhi said.

Tina wrote:What do you think about the way society today views beauty? What does the Bible say about this?

Reactionary has already spoken about beauty in respect to desire & women in modern society, so I'll tackle your second question, What does the Bible say about [beauty]?

God is beautiful:

Ps 27:4
Ps 90:17
Isa 28:5
Isa 33:17

The beauty of those justified by God:

Zec 9:17

...there are many more biblical references to beauty. I've just chosen a few. Sculptor Eric Gill sums up the Bible's view on beauty succinctly:

Look after goodness and truth, and beauty will take care of herself.

There, in Gill's sentence, are the three basic values which determine the worth of everything: Goodness, Truth, Beauty. Think about that.

In closing, read this from the apocryphal Wisdom of Solomon 13:1-5,

''Anyone who does not know God is simply foolish. Such people look at the good things around them and still fail to see the living God. They have studied the things he made but they have not recognized the one who made them. Instead, they suppose that the gods who rule the earth are fire or wind or storm or the circling stars or rushing water or the heavenly bodies. People were so delighted with the beauty of these things that they thought they must be gods, but they should have realized that these things have a master and that he is much greater than all of them. Since people are amazed at the power of these things, and how they behave, they ought to learn from them that their maker is far more powerful. When we realize how vast and beautiful the creation is, we are learning about the Creator at the same time.''

FL

This topic is interesting.
How is it? Can only religious people (Christians?) appreciate the beauty of the world?
There was a famous scientist Richard Feynman and he appreciated the beauty of the world and was not Christian.
For example, I found the following piece (http://www.fieldstudy.com/Classes/Annou ... nquote.htm):

Quote by Richard Feynman:
(As quoted from the "Best Mind Since Einstein" NOVA Video)

I have a friend who’s an artist and he’s some times taken a view which I don’t agree with very well. He’ll hold up a flower and say, "look how beautiful it is," and I’ll agree, I think. And he says, "you see, I as an artist can see how beautiful this is, but you as a scientist, oh, take this all apart and it becomes a dull thing." And I think he’s kind of nutty.

First of all, the beauty that he sees is available to other people and to me, too, I believe, although I might not be quite as refined aesthetically as he is. But I can appreciate the beauty of a flower.

At the same time, I see much more about the flower that he sees. I could imagine the cells in there, the complicated actions inside which also have a beauty. I mean, it’s not just beauty at this dimension of one centimeter: there is also beauty at a smaller dimension, the inner structure…also the processes.

The fact that the colors in the flower are evolved in order to attract insects to pollinate it is interesting – it means that insects can see the color.

It adds a question – does this aesthetic sense also exist in the lower forms that are…why is it aesthetic, all kinds of interesting questions which a science knowledge only adds to the excitement and mystery and the awe of a flower.

It only adds. I don’t understand how it subtracts.

or another piece:

To those who do not know mathematics it is difficult to get across a real feeling as to the beauty, the deepest beauty, of nature ... If you want to learn about nature, to appreciate nature, it is necessary to understand the language that she speaks in. The Character of Physical Law (1965) Ch. 2

or this:

“Poets say science takes away from the beauty of the stars - mere globs of gas atoms. I too can see the stars on a desert night, and feel them. But do I see less or more? The vastness of the heavens stretches my imagination - stuck on this carousel my little eye can catch one - million - year - old light. A vast pattern - of which I am a part... What is the pattern, or the meaning, or the why? It does not do harm to the mystery to know a little about it. For far more marvelous is the truth than any artists of the past imagined it. Why do the poets of the present not speak of it? What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter if he were a man, but if he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent?”

More quotes maybe could be found just googling "Feynman" and "beauty".

This (http://kottke.org/11/10/richard-feynman-on-beauty) video got me. It has beutiful pictures in it. (Well, Feynman talks also about his belief/unbelief but let's focus on the beauty in this thread. (But I would be interested in discussing the other stuff as well in other thread.))

He was really a poet. Poet of science who appreciated the beauty of the world.

World is so beautiful. The nature, its laws. Ah.

1over137 wrote:How is it? Can only religious people (Christians?) appreciate the beauty of the world?

I watched the Richard Feynman video you provided and found it quite interesting! First, his New York taxi-driver accent was a surprise (!) and, second, he just seemed like a friendly guy chatting about a deep subject: beauty.

Of course, the beauty of the world can be appreciated by anyone with a sound mind. The healthier your mind, the greater your appreciation of beauty; conversly, the sick mind will either not be interested or perceive varying degrees of disgust.

So, what is beauty? Here is Kant's definition: ''The beautiful is that which, apart from concepts, is represented as the Object of a UNIVERSAL delight.''* According to Kant, beauty is immediately recognizable to all, and elicits delight apart from any selfish interest. So, Feynman sees a flower and recognizes it as beautiful because it is pretty. I would see the same flower as beautiful, and so would you.

What constitutes beauty? My mother used to say that physical beauty (of a person) is given by proportionality: eyes correctly spaced in relation to the nose/cheeks/mouth and so on; body neither too slim nor too fat, appendages in proper proportion. In this, my mother echoed Aquinas who says, ''Beauty includes three conditions...integrity/perfection, since those things which are impared are by that very fact ugly, due proportion/harmony; and, lastly, brightness/clarity, whence things are called beautiful which have a bright colour.''

Integrity, proportion, brightness, are the constituants of beauty according to Aquinas. Kant says beauty is immediately recognizable. I say the heathier your mind, the more you will appreciate beauty. The Bible says God is beautiful.

Where do we go from here?

FL


*The emphasis is Kant's. The quote is from The Critique of Aesthetic Judgement, Second Moment.

FL wrote: Of course, the beauty of the world can be appreciated by anyone with a sound mind. The healthier your mind, the greater your appreciation of beauty; conversly, the sick mind will either not be interested or perceive varying degrees of disgust.

And who has healthy mind? Can the answer be found in the Bible? I here am not so interested in philosophical discussion. Just wondering what Bible has to say to this.

Btw, I have found following nice verse:
Psalm 27:4:
"One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple. "

1over137 wrote:Btw, I have found following nice verse:
Psalm 27:4:

Yes! that is a nice verse! I'll add it to my reference verses on beauty.

1over137 wrote:And who has healthy mind? Can the answer be found in the Bible?

When I wrote,

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:Of course, the beauty of the world can be appreciated by anyone with a sound mind. The healthier your mind, the greater your appreciation of beauty; conversly, the sick mind will either not be interested or perceive varying degrees of disgust.

I was thinking of the worldly definition of ''healthy mind'', that is someone who is not obviously sick. Just as you don't have to be a meteorologist to see that there is bad weather outside, you don't need a degree in psychology to see that someone is deranged, or depressed, or perverted.

As for your question, the Bible doesn't define ''healthy mind'' but does have something to say about systematic delusions like atheism (Ps14:1) or idolatry. So, in a sense, recognizing Jesus as God is part of a healthy mind.

FL