Evidence for God from Science

Someone is trying to tell me that Trinitarians deny that Jesus is a human being.

I believe Jesus of Nazareth was 100% a human being and I think all Trinitarians believe this too.

It is alleged that when Trinitarians say Jesus is "fully human" they're only saying that Jesus' human nature is 100% like our own, they're not saying that Jesus is a human being . It has to do with the essential Trinitarian doctrine of anhypostasia.

I have never heard of a Trinitarian doctrine called anhypostasia.

Any input would be appreciated. Thank you.

It's not as tough as it sounds, archaic language aside. Bottom line up front: the second Pesron took on a human nature; natures and persons are not identical, for persons have natures, though not all natures are personal.

To explain, in Trinitarian literature, hypostasis is the Greek word literally means "what stands under." It basically refers to "nature" (e.g., the human nature). So the question is the relationship between hypostasis and persona (person).

There's no doubt that the Second Person of the Godhead is a person. Yet it is wrong to say that there are three hypostases in the Trinity. There is one nature and three Persons. So it is evident that hypostasis is not identical to persona. So what happens when the Logos takes on humanity?

Just what it sounds like. The second Person (persona) has His divine nature (hypostasis) and then takes on an additional nature (hypostasis)--a human nature. He does not take on a human person (persona). So is Jesus' human nature personal or impersonal? To me, it's a silly question. No natures are persons. Persons have natures. In the case of Jesus, this person had two natures--a divine and human.

As to the terms you mentioned, an- is a negation; so anhypostasis just means "not nature." It's a negative doctrine. It's just telling us where Jesus' personhood comes from; it does not come from His human nature. It comes in (thus, enhypostasia) in divine nature). That doesn't mean Jesus was "like" human, that He was not human. Persons are what they are in virtue of their nature. A divine person is a divine person in virtue of having a divine nature. A human person in virtue of having a human nature.

So your friend's problem is that he is assuming having a nature makes you a person. That's obviously false, and if he believes it, he is not trinitarian. He is a tritheist, since each Person of the Godhead would thereby have their own hypostasis, which would mean there were three underlying realities of each Person, not one.

Jac3510 wrote:It's not as tough as it sounds, archaic language aside. Bottom line up front: the second Pesron took on a human nature; natures and persons are not identical, for persons have natures, though not all natures are personal.

To explain, in Trinitarian literature, hypostasis is the Greek word literally means "what stands under." It basically refers to "nature" (e.g., the human nature). So the question is the relationship between hypostasis and persona (person).

There's no doubt that the Second Person of the Godhead is a person. Yet it is wrong to say that there are three hypostases in the Trinity. There is one nature and three Persons. So it is evident that hypostasis is not identical to persona. So what happens when the Logos takes on humanity?

Just what it sounds like. The second Person (persona) has His divine nature (hypostasis) and then takes on an additional nature (hypostasis)--a human nature. He does not take on a human person (persona). So is Jesus' human nature personal or impersonal? To me, it's a silly question. No natures are persons. Persons have natures. In the case of Jesus, this person had two natures--a divine and human.

As to the terms you mentioned, an- is a negation; so anhypostasis just means "not nature." It's a negative doctrine. It's just telling us where Jesus' personhood comes from; it does not come from His human nature. It comes in (thus, enhypostasia) in divine nature). That doesn't mean Jesus was "like" human, that He was not human. Persons are what they are in virtue of their nature. A divine person is a divine person in virtue of having a divine nature. A human person in virtue of having a human nature.

So your friend's problem is that he is assuming having a nature makes you a person. That's obviously false, and if he believes it, he is not trinitarian. He is a tritheist, since each Person of the Godhead would thereby have their own hypostasis, which would mean there were three underlying realities of each Person, not one.

Jac, thanks for your reply. I tried to google an answer, but didn't get very far.

This is what CARM says:

Anhypostasis
Anyhypostasis is a term used to describe the idea that the humanity of Jesus had no existence apart from the incarnation of the Word (John 1:1,14).

I agree that the humanity of Jesus of Nazareth had no existence before He was born. It is the Word who became flesh.

You have given me some "buzz" words to investigate further.

The other guy is not a trinitarian, he is a Unitarian.

Gentlemen

I believe there is some confusion above though I agree that it is simple. The hypostatic union fundamentally denies that Jesus is a man. This is best expressed in the sub-doctrine of the anhypostasis which as Jac3510 noted above denies that Jesus is a human person. As we all know, a man is fundamentally a human person - and Jesus is clearly, formally and repeatedly described as and necessitated to be a man (ICor15:21, ITim2:5, Jn8:40, etc., etc..

Therefore, Christian2 is correct - do essentially deny that Jesus is a human being affirming only that He has a full human nature (which, of course, they don't really define).

I do note that NONE of this is Biblical - it is all speculative theology based on God knows what - perhaps Greek philosophy or perhaps bad food - you tell me.

I will stick with the clear text - To us, there is ONE God - The Father (period) and one mediator between man and God the MAN Christ Jesus. Amen!

GregLogan wrote:Gentlemen

I believe there is some confusion above though I agree that it is simple. The hypostatic union fundamentally denies that Jesus is a man. This is best expressed in the sub-doctrine of the anhypostasis which as Jac3510 noted above denies that Jesus is a human person. As we all know, a man is fundamentally a human person - and Jesus is clearly, formally and repeatedly described as and necessitated to be a man (ICor15:21, ITim2:5, Jn8:40, etc., etc..

Therefore, Christian2 is correct - do essentially deny that Jesus is a human being affirming only that He has a full human nature (which, of course, they don't really define).

I do note that NONE of this is Biblical - it is all speculative theology based on God knows what - perhaps Greek philosophy or perhaps bad food - you tell me.

I will stick with the clear text - To us, there is ONE God - The Father (period) and one mediator between man and God the MAN Christ Jesus. Amen!

I think you misunderstand the hypostatic union.
This link explains the hypostatic union. It certainly doesn't teach that Jesus Christ isn't a man. Jesus Christ has always been the second person of the Holy Trinity(God is eternal), and he became man at conception.

Jesus Christ is fully God, and fully man. To teach otherwise is preaching a false christ.

Here is a little more insight according to Christian Mysticism (source: http://www.researchersoftruth.org/)



What are the Absolute Infinite Beingness [God] , the Logos [Christ] and the Holy Spirit? What are these powers that we call God? Life? Also, what is Christ for a real Christian, what is Jesus Christ?

Jesus Christ is a perfect human being and God, a perfect expression and manifestation. As a human being, He lived 2000 years ago, walking the streets of Palestine.

What is He to us now?

The Logos Christ, means, Logos, which is the Word, and Christ, which comes from the Greek word “Christos”, means the anointed. Does Jesus Christ live and exist now, or is He a historic person?

What is Christ, the anointed one, the Logos, what can It be?

According to John the Evangelist, Jesus Christ “...is the light which lighteth every man coming to the world”. This means, He gives us self-consciousness. We as self-conscious beings, have within us the Logos. Christ is the real Self of all humans.

What did Jesus Christ say about us Christians? “Be ye perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect”.

We must thank the Absolute Beingness, God, for granting us the authority to use the mind. The mind is not a handful of earth, like the brain in our head. If we use the mind in the same way as Jesus Christ did, we will all demonstrate what He did. However, in order to attain this, a lot of careful training is required. The mind that was in Christ was the mind of God. Therefore, we know that we must be perfect, as the Father in heaven is perfect.

This achievement seems almost superhuman, and so it is. The human aspect must be placed aside, and the divine aspect must be established in its place. Humans are transient and fallible, but the divine is permanent and infallible.

Christ is the consciousness within us that we are "Sons of God”
(Luke 2:40-52).

It is the Absolute Beingness, God, expressing Itself dynamically.

The Christ Logos is life. Christ said, “I am the Way, the Truth and Life”. The Holy Spirit is life; the life-giver. What do we mean by life-giver? To whom and to what does the Holy Spirit give life to?

We, as human beings are life. The Holy Spirit, the Christ Logos and our Creator the Father, give life to the form, to our material, psychical and noetical bodies.

Christ also said, “Know the Truth and the Truth will liberate you”. Liberate us from what? From ignorance. We must accept the Truth of our being, and then through understanding to begin diligently, to live truthfully in thought, word and deed.

In observation, ask yourselves, who is concentrating and trying to know?
Then you hear within you the word “I”.

The light, which lighteth every human being, coming into the world, leads us to the conclusion that we are a personality, a thinker.

Using the God-mind means to know that “I am I”.

When you know what is this “I”, the ego, the I-ness, then you will find that you are God.

In our Present-Day-Personality, as a man or a woman, we have some energy forces, which we can call animal energies, that keep us slaves of our desire, emotions and so on.

When the I-ness takes charge of the body, a new order of things is inaugurated. The vitality is no longer wasted in mere sense-gratification. Through high and pure vibrations, the consciousness is raised to higher standards. “Blessed is he who cometh in the name of the Lord”. The Lord is the highest ruling principle of Man.

Jesus Christ passed through all the trials and temptations of each one of us, “yet without sin”, which means not falling into the dominion of evil thoughts. Therefore, this is possible for Man too.

Many ask, “Did Jesus Christ leave us, Will He become visible again?”

Many are conscious of His presence in the same degree, but they do not see Him as He is, because they have not brought their faculties of apprehension up to His standards. When we awake in His likeness, then we shall see Him as He really is.

This does not come about through the soul leaving the body, but it is accomplished by refining, spiritualizing and raising both soul and body to higher degrees of power.

Christ exists in a realm, where the limitations of form are dissolved. He lives in the body idea. When we have identified ourselves with the Father as Christ did, we shall see Him face to face in His spiritual reality. But while we are in the consciousness of the physical body, Christ will appear to us in the form that we see.

If the mind has grasped the capacity and power of spiritual ideas, then the appearance of Jesus Christ will be understood.

For us Christians, the only religion is Truth-Life!

by: Dr. Stylianos Atteshlis [Daskalos]