Evidence for God from Science

Obama's new stand on Gay marriage, now he is for it, other times he said his feelings about are evolving. This is just another political move on his part, getting closer to November elections he is scared he will lose. Certainly his preformance as president couldn't win the re-election, putting our county in trillions of dollars in debt, and taking credit for what previous administrations did; This is just classic Obama politics. This also shows how far our country has moved from our traditionl values and our moral values. We are moving from Biblical Christanity to an new form, we are beginning to taint our views to please man, and not God. If this does anything for Obama it will boost his chances for being re-elected, and America is in trouble if he is. His whole time in office has been on long campagin trail, reaching out to first time voters with promises he brakes; We need to look at facts about his time in office, while liberal and left wing news stations try to paint him as a great leader, the statistics show just the opposite. We need to regain our constitutional Government, with our moral and traditonal values. We need to follow in the footsteps of North Carolina.

Just saying, if we follow in the footsteps of North Carolina, you are saying marrying your cousin is acceptable as long as they aren't gay. I agree Obama's announcement is a political move, and one that will more or less appeal to his party. But I don't think that's really something to criticize because literally every public statement a candidate makes is politically charged and worded to make headlines. Also, criticizing Obama's first term is kind of silly because historically, US presidents get almost nothing done in their first term, especially not with a legislature that is content to simply not work with him and then say Obama isn't doing anything.

Curious, why do you think Biblical Christianity is what our country should strive for? How does that have anything to do with our Constitution? Are you suggesting we ban all religions but Christianity in this country, or mandate that all citizens become Christians?

Tpatt17 wrote: His whole time in office has been on long campagin trail, reaching out to first time voters with promises he brakes; We need to look at facts about his time in office, while liberal and left wing news stations try to paint him as a great leader, the statistics show just the opposite. We need to regain our constitutional Government, with our moral and traditonal values. We need to follow in the footsteps of North Carolina.

Amen.. It was very unwise for him to go this route, but then again, he wasn't a wise president to begin with. I most certainly won't be voting for him this election.

Mitt Romney scares me too however.. Mormonism is a demonic belief system also... Oh poor America. What will we do?

No, I'm not saying to ban all religions at all, for Christians we need to base our views on the Bible, yet we are moving far away from that. As for north Carolina, we need to follow it's stand on Gay marriage. Our Country was found on Christian beliefs, to mandate Citizen to become a christian would violate our constitution, of Freedom of Religion. I should have made Clearer that as Christians we need to see our world Biblically in the US, I would be against anything that would force someone to be Christian, it is a personal choice and an eternal one. Now If our country was founded on these biblical beliefs they should not change, Im not saying to become a Theocracy, but this is what some of the foundation of the US was built on, we should not try to change them. Gay marriage is a hard topic, and one I've discussed in my Bible Study, but to base it one the Bible my answer is pretty clear. For Obamas first term, and all those "politics" I'm sick of broken promises, not just Obama but it seems like its all for Political gain. Just saying, do not make so many promises in your campagin, if their not intended to be kept, and thats for all of them. About Mitt, he is the best thing, and hopefully the next president, but I'm sure he wiil say, and not do some things all do this, I guess thats just Politics.

But could you not say that by making laws that are inherently Christian in origin and reasoning, such as laws against gay marriage/union, is exactly the same as making Christianity the required religion? Say somebody isn't a Christian in North Carolina. Right now, regardless of freedom of religion, they are currently required to adhere to a part of the Christian faith, for no other reason than that there are Christian lawmakers in North Carolina who have forced their religion on him/her. That's my problem with this issue. If you think it is wrong to sleep with a member of your sex, or to be in a union with someone of the same sex, then I have no problem with you choosing not to do that. But I don't think you have a right to dictate whether someone else can make that choice.

I'll concede that we should generally adhere to the Constitution, with room for changes if world events or current culture drastically change. But where does the Constitution ban homosexuality? Or homosexual relationships? You can't claim homosexual union is unconstitutional without it violating something in the Constitution itself...which it does not.

I see your point, generally it has been accepted that Gays can to be together, and the issure of marriage is becoming bigger and bigger. This is the reason we are not a theocracy, issues like this would not be discussable. This is my position on the issue, This is not a popular one but I stick to what I believe. If this were a theocracy then they would have to adhear to this, but as of now there are states who accept it, as for my state (Ohio) I don't think we have voted on it. That's the big question, whether it will be accepted nationwide, or not. I cannot Judge, I just don't accept gay marriage, I do not judge those who are Gay. That's what is so great about the constitution, we have a freedom of religion. I see your point, and understand the trouble you have with tis issue it is a very hard on to deal with.

I wanted to bounce this off of a few other Christians to see what you all though.

When I think of Gay Marriage I am discouraged because it is just another thing tearing away at America's moral fiber, but, hearing some of the arguments for it, I am reminded of a time in my life where I lived with my best friend out of high school. We are not gay, but we lived together for almost 10 years. I remember thinking that we should get some kind of tax break or something because we lived together for so long and were almost like family. Later on I met a man who lived with a disabled woman and cared for her. They were not romantic, just cohabitating because she needed someone. He was just a friend. It makes me think that maybe in our society we actually could use some kind of new classification and extended benefits as far as group health insurance policies, tax breaks, etc for all types of long term cohabitating peoples. Gay activists claim they are seeking equal rights, but they are not fighting for plutonic same sex cohabitations or plutonic opposite sex long term cohabitations which merit the same rights they seek to have. Gay activists are seeking to be extended the special rights given to family and family structures which are naturally set apart from other types of relationships. Nature does a fine job at showing that only Man/Woman relationships are set apart and I feel strongly that this union be protected no matter what. However, it does seem like a "Household Status" could be created that would be equal to all types of long term cohabitations. It would be a civil thing and households would have to register their household members to be recognized. This also would take away the "Gay Issues" that children would have to rekon with at young ages if gay marriage was ever fully embraced by our society. All that children would see is the government recognizing households of many types of people. It seems to me that this would be an acceptable path that would in fact be equal rights regardless of sex, race, status etc...

Any thoughts?

Ivellious wrote:But could you not say that by making laws that are inherently Christian in origin and reasoning, such as laws against gay marriage/union, is exactly the same as making Christianity the required religion? Say somebody isn't a Christian in North Carolina. Right now, regardless of freedom of religion, they are currently required to adhere to a part of the Christian faith, for no other reason than that there are Christian lawmakers in North Carolina who have forced their religion on him/her. That's my problem with this issue. If you think it is wrong to sleep with a member of your sex, or to be in a union with someone of the same sex, then I have no problem with you choosing not to do that. But I don't think you have a right to dictate whether someone else can make that choice.

I'll concede that we should generally adhere to the Constitution, with room for changes if world events or current culture drastically change. But where does the Constitution ban homosexuality? Or homosexual relationships? You can't claim homosexual union is unconstitutional without it violating something in the Constitution itself...which it does not.

I see what you are saying, but I do not see moral legislation as adherence to any religion per say. Thou shalt not kill, steal, lie etc, all come from the Bible (Tora), but is actually correct morally and no matter what your religious beliefs are, you as a human being are accountable and face consequences for doing such things. The issues that we have concerning gay marriage is if in fact it is wrong or not. If it will harm our society and our children. Wisdom is not based on religion, however God is the author of all knowledge and wisdom. He makes mankind accountable to their actions and we are all on the same playing field in that regard. So far to date we have seen all of Christianities stances on sex as being morally correct. All we have to do is look back at the 60's and the sexual revolution to see how damaging liberal sexual principals are. Divorce is rampant, crime due to broken homes, millions have died from aids, other STD's are rampant, personal responsibility is almost a thing of the past. An 18 year old virgin is pretty much unheard of. Liberal views on homosexuality are based on ignorance, not knowledge, lack of a moral base or ideal.

I think that it might be more accurate to say that society instituting marriage took from religion when it adopted marriage, that is why this issue contains so many of these questions. Marriage in every single culture, as far back as you can trace comes from the spiritual/religious aspects of those cultures. It became civil way after it first became a rite. I know that the homosexuals debate this, but the facts are there. Marriage predates recorded history and in EVERY culture the early rites of marriage were inexplicably tied in with the spiritual/religious beliefs of the people. In our society we happen to be generally taking from the Roman Catholic rite of marriage, which has it's roots in the Jewish rite. The homosexuals want this to be separate, but I dont think it ever will be or can be. Marriage as purely a civil contract wouldn't be called marriage. It would be called something like a "Cohabitation contract" The very Idea of marriage comes from the spiritual/religious (from God actually). Maybe it was a mistake to ever allow it to become institutionalized civilly, but then again, laws were needed to regulate family matters and inheritance etc...

Politicians are politicians, enough said.
As for Gay marriage, hey, if homosexuals want to go through the joyful experience of divorce, all the power to them !
;P

We need to regain our constitutional Government, with our moral and traditonal values.

Yep, we need to bring back slavery and not allow women to vote. (massive sarcasm)
Let we warn you, what NC did is all fine and good, as long as you are in the majority. Because guess what? That majority could swing, and it will. In fact, most suspect that this next generation will be much more favorable towards homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle. And then they will simply vote in their will, and you'll have to live with it. I am about as conservative as you can get. But Americans are foolish to confuse law with faith. I'm not saying there aren't good reasons to oppose gay marriage, but just be careful.